klingeme 0 #1 February 10, 2012 I have landed out several times, and I know what's going through my mind when I did it... That was a fun jump, damn I didn't make it back to the DZ, I hope the land owner is not home or is "cool" with me being here. Here is a Facebook post from one of my Wuffo friends today. QuoteSo about 10 skydivers used my front pasture to land causing my horses to panic and almost run through the fence & had the balls to laugh about it. Then proceeded to tell us were the idiots for living next to the airport and we've been here 2 weeks compared to their 10 years landing here. Next one that lands in my field & scares my horses to death will have a pissed off pitbull turned loose and I WILL pull my firearm. Let's not forget that you need to be VERY considerate when you've landed somewhere other than the dropzone. Mark Klingelhoefer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmfreefly 0 #2 February 10, 2012 Let's all make friends with the locals... we have brought beer to our local farmers if they had a bunch of jumpers land there. It helps. Just sayin'. Remember, you are trespassing.Team Flew-id Making freefall pretty since 1998 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #3 February 10, 2012 QuoteI have landed out several times, and I know what's going through my mind when I did it... That was a fun jump, damn I didn't make it back to the DZ, I hope the land owner is not home or is "cool" with me being here. Here is a Facebook post from one of my Wuffo friends today. QuoteSo about 10 skydivers used my front pasture to land causing my horses to panic and almost run through the fence & had the balls to laugh about it. Then proceeded to tell us were the idiots for living next to the airport and we've been here 2 weeks compared to their 10 years landing here. Next one that lands in my field & scares my horses to death will have a pissed off pitbull turned loose and I WILL pull my firearm. Let's not forget that you need to be VERY considerate when you've landed somewhere other than the dropzone. Mark Klingelhoefer I get the feeling that's not going to end well for anyone.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #4 February 10, 2012 https://www.facebook.com/Fleefry/posts/10150609533086520 if you'd like to follow along. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #5 February 10, 2012 They're fucking idiots for landing anywhere near horses. Horses have a racial memory from a time when they were small and meat eating birds were very large.“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #6 February 10, 2012 Hi Mark, Quotehad the balls to laugh about it. Then proceeded to tell us were the idiots This along with a threat to kick the sh** out of the local farmer is what eventually caused the county to close the dropzone at Donald, Oregon. The gov't does have some powers. JerryBaumchen PS) Pogo: I have seen the the enemy and he are us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #7 February 10, 2012 >Horses have a racial memory from a time when they were small and meat eating birds >were very large. Horses don't have "racial memories" of huge birds. They are spooked by lots of things, including snakes, mountain bikes, fireworks and dogs. Out here on the trails it's a good idea to stop before you get to a horse so that you can get a read from the rider whether or not they are spooked by bikes. Often the rider will say "yeah, she'll be fine, just keep talking so she's not surprised." That might be a good way to mitigate the danger of spooking them if you have no choice other than to land near a horse. (Of course not landing near _any_ large animal is generally a good idea.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weaverd 0 #8 February 10, 2012 My DZO told me a story once of going to pick up some jumpers that landed out at a local farm, He found them sitting with the family having breakfast! If I ever land out I know which farm I'm aiming for ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weaverd 0 #9 February 10, 2012 QuoteThey're fucking idiots for landing anywhere near horses. Horses have a racial memory from a time when they were small and meat eating birds were very large. Im asuming thats a typo and you mean "facial"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #10 February 11, 2012 Don't spook the livestock. http://www.iloveskydiving.org/view/videos/friday-freakout-ground-launching-into-a-herd-of-cows/ you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver604 0 #11 February 11, 2012 Holy shit that looks bad, injured livestock can really be expensive both in vet bills and costs of putting an animal down, not mention the cost of the gear that's been dragged plus injuries to the ground launcher being dragged. Years ago when I owned my horse the vet charged $60 just to show up plus $60 an hour plus supllies, radiographs etc, not good all around. Caring for injured horses and large animals is also time consuming, I remember when Sabre has a bowed tendon, 5 weeeks 2x a day , icing, heating and wrapping the leg (everyday),,,I don't blame this woman one bit for being pissed "The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uberchris 0 #12 February 11, 2012 funny, if im not mistaken it was that same attitude back in the 80's that played a part in getting BASE jumping in NPS on the permanently banned list........... i dont know why people can be such disrespectful pricksgravity brings me down......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #13 February 11, 2012 Quote>Horses have a racial memory from a time when they were small and meat eating birds >were very large. Horses don't have "racial memories" of huge birds. They are spooked by lots of things, including snakes, mountain bikes, fireworks and dogs. Out here on the trails it's a good idea to stop before you get to a horse so that you can get a read from the rider whether or not they are spooked by bikes. Often the rider will say "yeah, she'll be fine, just keep talking so she's not surprised." That might be a good way to mitigate the danger of spooking them if you have no choice other than to land near a horse. (Of course not landing near _any_ large animal is generally a good idea.) Sorry Bill, I stand by my post.“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #14 February 11, 2012 QuoteQuoteThey're fucking idiots for landing anywhere near horses. Horses have a racial memory from a time when they were small and meat eating birds were very large. Im asuming thats a typo and you mean "facial"? Nope, I meant racial memory. Laugh your ass off, I don't care.“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #15 February 11, 2012 Quote funny, if im not mistaken it was that same attitude back in the 80's that played a part in getting BASE jumping in NPS on the permanently banned list........... i dont know why people can be such disrespectful pricks Didn't you get the memo? - People these days have the right to be arseholesIf this story is correct and if I was the DZO - these peeps would no longer be welcome [full stop] (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sebcat 0 #16 February 11, 2012 That facebook thread was interesting. I can totally understand the land owner. However, it seems that a lot of others don't, and some of the comments there does not help the situation. To quote the land owner: Quoteit would have been alot different if they were respectful The Right Thing To Do (if it hasn't been done) would be for a representative of The Ten to sit down or at least call the land owner and apologise. Say "we couldn't make it back to the drop zone, so we landed here. We acted in a disrespectful manner, scared livestock and for this we are sorry". Don't come with stupid comments like "skydivers have a right to make an emergency landing anywhere", "there's always two sides to every story" &c. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frontloop33 1 #17 February 11, 2012 Yea. The landowner can still be pissed but it's more likely that he will accept your apology and everything will be fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #18 February 11, 2012 QuoteThe Right Thing To Do (if it hasn't been done) would be for a representative of The Ten to sit down or at least call the land owner and apologise. Say "we couldn't make it back to the drop zone, so we landed here. We acted in a disrespectful manner, scared livestock and for this we are sorry". Don't come with stupid comments like "skydivers have a right to make an emergency landing anywhere", "there's always two sides to every story" Instead, they'll take that attitude that "I'm what's wrong with social media" because manifest had to deal with a pissed off land owner..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #19 February 11, 2012 I don't see that you or the landowner have done anything wrong - the other clowns and their supports on the other had ... jeeze should be ashamed of themselves big time. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #20 February 11, 2012 This is an obvious display of disrespect and poor judgement, if it really happened that way "skydivers laughed at me..... etc" Yes another farmer Mcnasty is created. In general though: Ever notice that if a plane runs out of fuel or has another emergency, and crashes or off field lands his airplane, none of the landowners even think about charging the airplane pilot with trespassing. Why? I think the landower realizes the situation is not within the control of the airplane pilot. Trespassing is not a "strict liability" offense. It takes some kind of volitional act. Upon that theory, 15 yrs ago I defended a young student jumper who landed in a horse pasture. No damage or injury to any horses or anything. The farmer had not had any previous incidents with skydivers, as he was a long long long way form the airport.(yes the spot was that bad) the student only had about 3 or 4 jumps and had no option but to find an open field and land in it. I defended this kid on the theory that he had little or no control of where he could land. Trees, etc were the only other option. Only 3 jumps...etc. He was put into a situation by circumstances beyond his control. In short, it was an accident, not an intentional trespass on the farmer's field. Trial to the court; as I felt a jury would just side with the farmer, and only a judge would understand the legal difference. Nonetheless, the judge found him guilty. I argued that a crash landing airplane pilot would not be considered to be trespassing for the reason stated above- 'where he crash lands is mostly out of his control'. The judge actually said that she could not envision ANY case whre a crash landing airplane pilot could be guilty of trespassing, but a sky diver can, because, after all, they chjose to jump from the plane. Interesting reasoning. Only a misdemeanor, but realize skydivers have public opinion against them from all angles. Not taking care of your landowners that are within landing distance of a dropzone is a plan that has consequences, seemingly forever. For a guy who threatens to set loose a pitbull dog and get out his firearm, - well that may just be an angry statement, but it is obvious, if these facts are true, that the landowner was treated with disrepct. What follows is a years long - maybe dcades long landowner/skydiver fued that probaly could have been avoided by figuring out the right apology/ approach/ or policy to calm the waters. It is not a level playing field for us skydivers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 173 #21 February 11, 2012 Promoting airport access one jerk off at a time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #22 February 11, 2012 The flip side of this coin is this.... Where I jump, the original DZO (1970's) always went and talked with the landowner anytime anyone landed off. And, he was always armed with a cold case of beer and an apology. He always went out of his way to make nice with the locals. To this day, every time I land off (which I do quite often) the landowners jump in their car, truck, tractor, snowmobile, 4 wheeler or whatever and chase me down. Not to charge me with trespass, but to see if I’m ok and to offer me a ride. You reap what you sew!Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #23 February 11, 2012 As a paraglider pilot , landing 'off' is often the norm and politeness and good manners can help get you back to your car. Try not to land in fields with crops or livestock.... find the shortest route to the gate ... use gates and styles (not messing up fences/hedges) - don't piss off people who's livelihoods depend on country living ... Don't be an Arse! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #24 February 12, 2012 A few years I landed in a field where a farmer was out tilling on his tractor. He was nice and offered me a ride back to the gate. In reality I would have preferred to hop the fence I was 10 feet away from, but I was bright enough to realize that I needed to hop on the back of his tractor and take a nice long ride back to the gate half a mile south It was kinda fun hanging on for dear life to a tractor though as we slowly crept along the field. :). Being a crwdog here for 20 years I've met practically ever neighbor within 5 miles. I've never had a problem with any of them but I've always been friendly and polite. It really matters. Our local farmers usually are nice enough to warn us when they get a new bull who is less than friendly :) We had a neighbor about half a mile away with a really old dog who wandered off and showed up at the dz. I took her home once I found out where she lived, but she figured out that there were great people at the dz who would pet and feed her so she kept coming back. She was so old she had trouble walking so I drove her home at least 20 times. Ever since then if we have a bad spot that direction I always land at their house. I figure they owe me. I return their dog,they return me :). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marisan 0 #25 February 12, 2012 Landing out. Just from an old fart. 1/ Try not to land out. (Do it safely or land out) To do this: A/ Learn to spot (I'm sure there are some old farts on your DZ that can teach you) B/ Check the spot before you exit (Especially if you are last out of a larger aircraft. The first guys out will optimise the spot to suit themselves. Not always but it pays to use this as a rule of thumb) 2/ After opening do a wind check. Face into wind and look for the spot on the ground that is not moving relative to you. That is where you are going to land. Of course if that spot is over your shoulder you have a whole lot of other problems but it still holds true. A/ To practise a wind check on the ground, place an object on the ground about 12 feet away from you and look at it. This is the sight picture you will get in the air if you are going to land on that spot. Walk backwards away from it still looking at it. This is the sight picture you will have if you are going to land short of it. Walk towards it while still looking at it. This is the sight picture you will have if you are going to overshoot it. You can adjust this sight picture by using brakes or front risers to change your angle of flight but only to a certain extent. This is very accurate way of determining where you are going to land from a substantial altitude and demo jumpers do it all the time. If you decide you are going to land out (You should know by 2,000 feet) start looking for safe areas. Don't worry about Farmer McNasty at this point in time. Obvious things to look out for are trees, water and stock (Stock is not the highest priority) Look out for more subtle things like a building in the middle of a field (It will quite possibly have power wires running to it) At this time (using your sight picture) you should know where you are going to land. Set yourself up and do a nice gentle approach into your landing. (Learn how your canopy reacts in ALL flight regimes) This is NOT the time to do a killer swoop! If, despite your best efforts, an unexpected hazard appears when you are committed to your landing, remember that a controlled flight into a hazard is better than a panic hook turn into the ground. Farmer McNasty is going to be more annoyed at Ambulances, Meatwagons etc cutting his fences and destroying his crops to get to your sorry body. After you have made your tippy toe landing exit his property. If he appears on the scene be polite and apologetic. After all it's not HIS fault that YOU fcuked up. Do NOT climb over fences or gates. It causes costly damage. If the farmhouse is nearby call past there and offer your apologies. As had been said earlier in this thread, as soon as possible return with the DZO and a cold case of beer. Always insist on paying for any damage caused. Lastly, report to the manifest on return so that people know you are alive and uninjured. A search for a body pisses everyone off, causes more damage especially when they find you on the booze in a trailer. Us old farts have seen and done it all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
