Stupid skydiving questions and ridicule

[narcimund 0]

There's a pervasive culture which discourages creative thinking by ridiculing those who mention creative thoughts. There's a recent example here in this forum, but there are also examples in all the forums.

It makes no sense to snipe at each other for exploring an interesting concept. So what if someone's curious if they can pop their reserve intentionally? So what if it's not a well thought out dive plan? So it would be dangerous without modification? That's not obvious and deserves a respectful discussion.

I celebrate people who think about non-obvious combinations like this. I want them to feel great about coming up with the idea. I try to help them get wiser by discussing it with them -- NOT CHASTISING or RIDICULING them. Poisoning your message with ridicule makes your message go unheard.

All you guys are doing is destroying the fun of skydiving. If people don't enjoy coming up with new ideas and batting them around (and occasionally pushing the boundaries of the sport by trying them out) they won't have fun.

By the way, to those who will respond, "It's worse at recdot or blinc," don't even bother. The excuse that somebody else is more awful than we are is cheap and useless.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[cgross 1]

I agree with you. But I think if there idea is a dangerous one, such as the reserve pull, they should definately be told the reasons why, and be advised not to do things like that.

About the ridecule though, your right. I am new, and there are things I wonder or want to try, and I want genuine responses, not sarcastic critism.

[CrazyIvan 0]

The purpose of forums like this is to SPREAD the RIGHT MESSAGE, if someone like me in this case, comes with a question like this, it means that I'm either just learning, or researching, so, if a more experienced skydiver has something to say, I'm all ears.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[flyhi 24]

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All you guys are doing is destroying the fun of skydiving. If people don't enjoy coming up with new ideas and batting them around (and occasionally pushing the boundaries of the sport by trying them out) they won't have fun.

It's people who dared to be creative who brought this sport to the level at which it is and will continue to elevate it into the future. People like Bill Booth and other innovators of his ilk were probably asking questions equally likely to label them a "moron" when they came up with stuff like the three-ring, the piggy-back reserve system, throw-out/pull-out PC's, and a host of other improvements that make our sport the sport which it is.

And, Peabody, if you want to take a trip on the Wayback Machine, when I started jumping one DZ almost didn't let a guy jump because he moved his PC from his belly-band (Wonder what that is?) to his leg strap. It was deemed unsafe because he couldn't see it to pull. And back then every skygod knew they'd never come up with a square reserve. They were inherently unsafe.

Guys asking the off-the-wall questions today may be the ones who come up with the helium-fill 48 sq ft parachute that you can load 4:1 as a student. Of course that's just ridiculous.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[drenaline 0]

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But I think if there idea is a dangerous one, such as the reserve pull, they should definately be told the reasons why, and be advised not to do things like that.

Thats correct, I hope everybody could find it in theyr minds how to post answers with a teaching tone and not a flamethrower sarcastic tone.

btw if you are sarcastic and the person really has no clue about the thing you are answering he will most likely do it, remember its different to read a sarcastic tone than to hear it (if you hear it you know its sarcastic, if you read it you might never know).

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[AggieDave 6]

I think that the reason that answers lacking tact appear in the forums is due to the fact that we have people trolling sometimes; moreover, some of the sort of questions that are asked by newbies that don't quite know are the same sort of questions that trollers will sometimes ask.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[narcimund 0]

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I think that the reason that answers lacking tact appear in the forums is due to the fact that we have people trolling sometimes; moreover, some of the sort of questions that are asked by newbies that don't quite know are the same sort of questions that trollers will sometimes ask.

Assumption that a question was posed by a troll might explain (thou not excuse) an initial biting response, but hardly explains the persistant pissiness we see often continuing.

I think it's just funhating, safer-than-thou, more-rule-abiding-than-thou ego monsters. It's competition among the sheep to jockey for the position of head sheep. But I'd never say it so bluntly.

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who does number 2 work for?

That would be telling.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[AggieDave 6]

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I think it's just funhating, safer-than-thou, more-rule-abiding-than-thou ego monsters. It's competition among the sheep to jockey for the position of head sheep. But I'd never say it so bluntly.

And gee, that's what uber-fucked wreck-dot long ago, those type of attitudes. Luckily we have gifted and talented moderators (ok, gifted AND talented was a bit far, maybe touched in the head would be a better description) who are supposed to take care of those sort of things. Its just hard for them to weigh when to jump in and use their powers to stop it or not to.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skybytch 259]

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maybe touched in the head would be a better description

Yes. Much better.

As it relates to this particular forum - General Skydiving Discussions - the type of responses that narci is talking about are not really welcome. This is, after all, a topical forum just like S&T and G&R. It may get a bit old replying to the same questions over and over, and sometimes we may think the poster is trolling... but here I think we have an obligation to give a clear and reasonable response to any skydiving related question.

[Luminous 0]

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I think that the reason that answers lacking tact appear in the forums is due to the fact that we have people trolling sometimes; moreover, some of the sort of questions that are asked by newbies that don't quite know are the same sort of questions that trollers will sometimes ask.

I've stated before that this is no excuse for someone to reply to a post flaming the poster.

If you think that a post is a troll, the best response is no response at all. That is unless your in one of the forums that beg a reply to such a post (TALK BACK).

BSBD
Larry

'In an insane society a sane person seems insane.' Mr. Spock

[Pammi 0]

WWOOHHOOO!! Very good narcimund. Well said. There's no need to ever be rude or mean, even outside of the skydiving world.

BTW...I did see an email sent out to a list elsewhere that expressed how sometimes hatefullyy opinionated some have been these forums. It'd be sad if DZ.com came to be known that way.

Pam

[decompresion 2]

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Guys asking the off-the-wall questions today may be the ones who come up with the helium-fill 48 sq ft parachute that you can load 4:1 as a student. Of course that's just ridiculous.

37 sq ft...dream big small

There are no dangerous dives
Only dangerous divers

[popsjumper 2]

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If you think that a post is a troll, the best response is no response at all.

That may be a valid response - no response. OTOH, IMO, trolls need to be answered when they could give youngsters wrong ideas about skydiving safety.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[dthames 0]

I have been looking for a way to state my feelings on this as well, but have not been able to determine the best way to approach the subject.

Until recently I was very much involved with a hobby that could kill you literally in the blink of an eye, with zero recourse if you made the wrong mistake. Proper safety was not limited to learning the things to do and not to do, but to develop something of a thought process to see around you and see all the possible things that might unfold. Once you get into the right way of thinking, you can look around and spot potential problems that may never have come up. It works because you really understand how all the pieces could come together, right or wrong.

I feel the need to develop such an understanding in skydiving. To do so, you must probe many questions that may not be within what a person needs to learn as a beginner. Only by going down these many paths can you start to learn a proper way of thinking and evaluating of various situations.

I don’t have a bonfire to sit around and visit for hours on end. This forum is about the best thing I have available. But I have largely just decided it is pointless in many cases to bring up topic of interest.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[airtwardo 6]

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Guys asking the off-the-wall questions today may be the ones who come up with the helium-fill 48 sq ft parachute that you can load 4:1 as a student. Of course that's just ridiculous.

37 sq ft...dream big small

a TEN year old thread??

REALLY??






edited to add: wonder whatever happen to Crazy Ivan?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[piisfish 135]

And Narcimund

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Squeak 17]

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And Narcimund

and Pammi (merrick too)

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Amazon 7]

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And Narcimund

Didn't Narci get perma banned for too many discouraging words making a few peoples skies all cloudy all day so they banned him????

[airtwardo 6]

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And Narcimund

Didn't Narci get perma banned for too many discouraging words making a few peoples skies all cloudy all day so they banned him????

The ole 'DizzyDot Rain Dance' ban hey?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[ArizonaStone 0]

I have talked with many a talented skydiver in person about DZ.com and the overwhelming consensus I get is that DZ.com is good for the classifieds and that's about it. I don't always feel the same way, but I have noticed a certain pissiness (as one poster points out) that is common in a lot of threads here and a certain degree of misinformation. I don't understand why skydivers who are around other skydivers when they skydive and experience this sport and all it's ins and outs, get home and jump on DZ.com and somehow forget all they have learned in the real world and start talking shit on these forums. To respond to the issue, I have the following thought.

Skydiving is a physical activity. There is a body of knowledge that surrounds the gear that can be learned in forums such as this and books, videos, etc. There is also a body of knowledge that pertains to the physical act of skydiving. This point is harder to discuss and easier to show/do.

Perhaps we are trying to over-discuss an activity which lends itself better to doing, than discussing. So, in an attempt to get our "fix" when we are away from the DZ, maybe we spout off dumb questions and dumb responses due to a lack of anything better to say.

If I am correct, the only solutions are to tolerate the silliness that occurs during our jumpless days, stop talking the shit out of this one activity, OR start offering up some truly useful threads that answer questions and show a genuine interest in the development of the sport.

Flame away if you please.

EDIT: For the newbies that ask the redundant questions, maybe we could politely suggest using the search engine and leave it at that. If the newbie offers something insightful that the DZ.com skygods haven't seen before, then try responding in a helpful or interested way.

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."

-Benjamin Franklin

[peek 20]

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I have talked with many a talented skydiver in person about DZ.com and the overwhelming consensus I get is that DZ.com is good for the classifieds and that's about it.

It is good for a lot more! However, it requires a certain minimum of work, which varies depending on how much you want to get out of it.

If some people would put as much effort in research on dropzone.com as they did doing totally frivolous stuff on Facebook, they would get something out of it.

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Perhaps we are trying to over-discuss an activity which lends itself better to doing, than discussing.

Agreed, but thorough discussion of things like incidents after-the-fact is a good thing.

[ArizonaStone 0]

I agree on the work aspect Peek. I try to exert a certain amount of diligence in my responses to posts. If everybody exercised the same discipline, DZ.com would be awesome.

Discussing incidents is a good thing also. The thing I notice though is that one-on-one discussions go good, but when the general populace starts commenting on a topic, things degrade.

I understand that everybody is different and some people are smarter than others, but I think we owe it ourselves to regulate the discussions better. This is probably the internet's only real hub of skydiving discussion. We should strive to make it at as awesome as the sport we participate in.

"Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see."

-Benjamin Franklin

[airtwardo 6]

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I agree on the work aspect Peek. I try to exert a certain amount of diligence in my responses to posts. If everybody exercised the same discipline, DZ.com would be awesome.

Discussing incidents is a good thing also. The thing I notice though is that one-on-one discussions go good, but when the general populace starts commenting on a topic, things degrade.

I understand that everybody is different and some people are smarter than others, but I think we owe it ourselves to regulate the discussions better. This is probably the internet's only real hub of skydiving discussion. We should strive to make it at as awesome as the sport we participate in.

People are people and their personalities tend to come through within the context of their postings, tone, manner, experience, common sense...

Like Mr. Peek alluded, pay attention and do your homework and it's a valuable resource.

You will begin to pick up on who knows what they're talking about and who is a whiny lil' bastard or who's full of shit.

I'm a grumpy old sarcastic loud-mouth that occasionally comes up with a pearl of wisdom worth listening to...but usually not.

If ya don't like what I say or how it's said...don't read my posts!
The longer you are in the sport the better you'll understand that your bullshit filter needs to be fine-tuned, just like most other aspects of life.

Most skydivers aren't intentionally trying to give you bum information, they are just expressing some individuality in the way they convey their thoughts...that's a good thing, that's what the sport if full of thank God.

IF the website isn't moderated as well as you would like, simply start your own!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~