Karnage Krew - Gary Lucas - Hearing RESULTS

[justincolebriss 0]

To all those who asked me so many question about this and thougt that I should pursue this matter, THANK YOU!

On March 9th I appeared before the Australian Cosumer, Trader & Tenancy Tribunal and plead my case. Gary failed to show up but luckily the court had evidence to show that he had been server a notice of hearing.

Regardless, I presented the evidence and the court found judgement in my favor for $733.00 USD. It also promptly sent out further letters to notify both Gary and myself of the reult.

I then email, called, and posted another copy of the letter to his business address. He has not responded and now almost a month later.

For anyone that wants to look it up I have attached the website and file number/information below;

www.cttt.nsw.gov.au
File: GEN 10/58737
Applicant: Justin Colebrissi
Respondent: KKrew skydiving Pty Ltd t/as Karnage Krew


I just hope this never happens to anyone else and if I ever get my money from KKrew and Gary I will be happy to update this thread.

Do you know GARY LUCAS? He represents, or used to be Karnage Krew aka KKrew Skydiving Pty Ltd. I am looking for him, please contact me if you know his whereabouts.

[airdvr 197]

Now that you have the judgement you need to figure out what financial institution he might have money in accounts with. The only way you'll ever see a dime of it is to seek out his money and attach it.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I wonder where all of his supporters are now?

[pchapman 261]

I wonder if your getting the judgment at least gives you a clear proof in order to deduct your loss from income, for tax purposes. Not to mention legal fees to recover what's owed.

Some countries have allowance for theft losses including money. I'm not sure if this qualifies, as I've also seen it stated that there has to be criminal intent.

I have no idea how it works when it comes to INTENT to defraud -- whether someone deliberately sets up a business based on a Ponzi scheme versus just being so blindly optimistic that they in effect set one up.

I don't know taxation policy but it's an interesting area to explore for anyone who has been clearly scammed.

EDIT: Davelepka reminded me -- in the post that follows -- that KKrew didn't just run out of money. He took money in for orders and did not submit those orders to the manufacturers. There's the intent to defraud.

[davelepka 4]

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I have no idea how it works when it comes to INTENT to defraud -- whether someone deliberately sets up a business based on a Ponzi scheme versus just being so blindly optimistic that they in effect set one up

Even if a business was started in good failth, and operated as such for years, when you defruad as many people as Gary did, eventaully the intent is there.

I could see if he was running a business with dozens of regular customers, and then due some circumstance the business suffered a critical blow, and all of the customers were out in some way. In that case, there would be a number of people who suffered a loss, but not neccessarily an intent to defraud.

In this case, however, none of these people were regular customers with active accounts and on-going business, these were are single-transaction customers and the dates of their business dealings are spread out over a large time frame.

After he took the first payment for gear that was never ordered, that's day one of the fraud. Any business after that would have been entered into with Gary's knowledge of the trouble the business was in, and that he was not following the standard business practices (as-in, ordering gear the customers paid for). Despite this previous knowledge (aka intent) he took their money anyway.

Whatever the case is, the was entitled to make ONE mistake of this nature. At that point he could have locked the doors, begged that ONE customer for forgivness, and set up a repayment schedule to return that persons money to them. By not following that course of action, and knowingly continuing on taking money and not placing orders, he used his one 'get out jail free' card, and became a crook.

The majority of jumper are not wealthy people, and they spend a good hunk of their income on jumping. The rig is the big purchase, and the key to everything that follows. To pray on jumpers and take their rig money, only to spend it on whatever personal affairs you see fit is a crime, both legally and morally. Fuck that guy.

[virgin-burner 1]

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I wonder where all of his supporters are now?

....

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[kellja2001 0]

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I wonder where all of his supporters are now?

I can only hope Gary does the right thing, to ensure the best possible solution (the moral one) is achieved.

Hell, I never had a problem with the guy, but it sounds like things are sour now

[justincolebriss 0]

I am looking for pictures of Gary for the police, please email me and post it here if you have one. Also if you or anyone you know has any idea where this guy is I would greatly appreciate it.

Do you know GARY LUCAS? He represents, or used to be Karnage Krew aka KKrew Skydiving Pty Ltd. I am looking for him, please contact me if you know his whereabouts.

[NealFitz 0]

dude i cant find the tribunal hearing on the website i wouldnt mind looking at it.

Dudeist Skydiver #170
You do not need a parachute to skydive, you only need one to skydive again

[justincolebriss 0]

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dude i cant find the tribunal hearing on the website i wouldnt mind looking at it.

Send me an email to [email protected] and I will forward you the letter they sent that details everything. If you want the transcript then you might have to email them or call them directly.

This goes for everyone that wants to see it.

P.S. I could use a little help if anyone has some free time. I am trying to find all the different postings about bad things that have happened to other people. If anyone could compile them and post the links here it would be great.

Thanks everyone!

Do you know GARY LUCAS? He represents, or used to be Karnage Krew aka KKrew Skydiving Pty Ltd. I am looking for him, please contact me if you know his whereabouts.

[justincolebriss 0]

Also, if you had a similar buying experience or any major issue with Karnage Krew please email me directly, a short ( no more than 1 page ) report about the facts of your buying purchase. Include dates, payment sent details, and when you last spoke with him. i dont need all the banter that went back and forth, just the facts from the start of the buying process, to the end.

I will be forwarding all the reports to every supplier and DZ along with his picture so that he never does this type of thing to anyone ever again....

Do you know GARY LUCAS? He represents, or used to be Karnage Krew aka KKrew Skydiving Pty Ltd. I am looking for him, please contact me if you know his whereabouts.

[craigbey 0]

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The majority of jumper are not wealthy people, and they spend a good hunk of their income on jumping. The rig is the big purchase, and the key to everything that follows.

I'll never understand why people are not more careful with such a purchase.

[virgin-burner 1]

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The majority of jumper are not wealthy people, and they spend a good hunk of their income on jumping. The rig is the big purchase, and the key to everything that follows.

I'll never understand why people are not more careful with such a purchase.

because he used to have a fucking good reputation on here; and most threads that critisised him in the past were either deleted or locked.

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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The majority of jumper are not wealthy people, and they spend a good hunk of their income on jumping. The rig is the big purchase, and the key to everything that follows.

I'll never understand why people are not more careful with such a purchase.

because he used to have a fucking good reputation on here; and most threads that critisised him in the past were either deleted or locked.

It's who you know or who you blow.

[virgin-burner 1]

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The majority of jumper are not wealthy people, and they spend a good hunk of their income on jumping. The rig is the big purchase, and the key to everything that follows.

I'll never understand why people are not more careful with such a purchase.

because he used to have a fucking good reputation on here; and most threads that critisised him in the past were either deleted or locked.

It's who you know or who you blow.

if you're being a real dickhead about it, you could say that dorkzone contributed to it indirectly..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[skybytch 259]

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because he used to have a fucking good reputation on here;

Why? Because he sold gear cheaper than other dealers. Sure, he came off as a good person, but that's easy enough to do online. Heck, even I managed to have a real good reputation around here.

Very few people sent Gary orders because they thought he was a good person. They sent him orders because they thought he was going to save them a few bucks.

[virgin-burner 1]

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because he used to have a fucking good reputation on here;

Why? Because he sold gear cheaper than other dealers. Sure, he came off as a good person, but that's easy enough to do online. Heck, even I managed to have a real good reputation around here.

Very few people sent Gary orders because they thought he was a good person. They sent him orders because they thought he was going to save them a few bucks.

you would also get gear to use while you waited for yours to come. it's funny that now everyone's rambling, while back then nobody ever said anything but that he was "good people". unfortunately, i cant talk myself out of that either.

and yea, it's more than just a "few" bucks, his prices were great! too good to be true, as we had to learn..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[-ftp- 0]

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because he used to have a fucking good reputation on here; and most threads that critisised him in the past were either deleted or locked.

[g2gjump 0]

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The majority of jumper are not wealthy people, and they spend a good hunk of their income on jumping. The rig is the big purchase, and the key to everything that follows.

I'll never understand why people are not more careful with such a purchase.

because he used to have a fucking good reputation on here; and most threads that critisised him in the past were either deleted or locked.

It's who you know or who you blow.

how informative of you to say that

[ridestrong 1]

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because he used to have a fucking good reputation on here;

Why? Because he sold gear cheaper than other dealers. Sure, he came off as a good person, but that's easy enough to do online. Heck, even I managed to have a real good reputation around here.

Very few people sent Gary orders because they thought he was a good person. They sent him orders because they thought he was going to save them a few bucks.

you would also get gear to use while you waited for yours to come. it's funny that now everyone's rambling, while back then nobody ever said anything but that he was "good people". unfortunately, i cant talk myself out of that either.

and yea, it's more than just a "few" bucks, his prices were great! too good to be true, as we had to learn..

He did have a good reputation at one point in time... I bought my container, reserve, and Cypres through him a year and a half ago and did get a pretty good deal. He also sent me a demo rig to use in the interim, which ended up being more trouble than it was worth. While my dealing with him wasn't hassle free ultimately in the end I was a happy with my goods received.

Unfortunately he made some very bad decisions, has found himself in a lot of trouble and will likely never deal in the skydiving industry ever again. Sad...

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[mjosparky 3]

Gary contacted me in September of last year and offered me a job. I was to do follow up on gear purchased in the US, contact the manufactures and check on delivery dates verify orders, that sort of stuff. Even though he offered a very generous pay package I told him I would have to think about it. I made a few calls and started getting a bad feeling about the deal. I made a couple of efforts to contact him but never heard back I think this has been coming for some time now. I also think that quite a number of jumpers let the chance of saving a few bucks get in the way of doing the homework needed when buying on line.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Skydivesg 6]

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The majority of jumper are not wealthy people, and they spend a good hunk of their income on jumping. The rig is the big purchase, and the key to everything that follows.

I'll never understand why people are not more careful with such a purchase.

Craig, as you know, I'm a small local dealer.

You would be surprised how many people tallk to me to get informed about gear and then buy it from someone 1000s of miles away, whom they never met, so they can save as little as $50.00.

It's the American way (and maybe the international way as well).

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[SStewart 13]

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Gary contacted me in September of last year and offered me a job. I was to do follow up on gear purchased in the US, contact the manufactures and check on delivery dates verify orders, that sort of stuff. Even though he offered a very generous pay package I told him I would have to think about it. I made a few calls and started getting a bad feeling about the deal. I made a couple of efforts to contact him but never heard back I think this has been coming for some time now. I also think that quite a number of jumpers let the chance of saving a few bucks get in the way of doing the homework needed when buying on line.

Sparky

He contacted me as well, the offer was to have gear components shipped to me from Florida and I would assemble and pack the reserves and mains, install aad's if needed, and then ship the complete rig to customers here in the US. It made sense to me since he is down under and needed a rigger in the US. At $100 per rig he would also save money because the factory would charge more.

I accepted the offer but fortunately for me he never followed through with the deal. Sounds like I dodged a bullet

Onward and Upward!

[catfishhunter 1]

The numbers being talked about just don't disappear. They don't get "lost" or mis-managed away in an operation this small. I hope Gary finds the help he needs for his problem whatever that maybe but sure as shit the money is gone and non recoverable. It isn't hard to trace back where it went.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[justincolebriss 0]

Well the number of people just keeps on growing and I hope that everyone who is owed money takes the time to file with the website to make it legal through AUS government as a debt.

Just from what I have received so far its up to around $40,000.00 dollars and a couple people did not want to disclose how much they had lost so it make s me think that they might be out an entire system.....

Im sorry again that everyone has had to endure this and I am looking forward to hearing from more people.

Justice will be served!

Do you know GARY LUCAS? He represents, or used to be Karnage Krew aka KKrew Skydiving Pty Ltd. I am looking for him, please contact me if you know his whereabouts.