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Beginner with helmet camera

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I started AFF in November and have since logged 36 jumps, what an amazing sport. I read a post the other day regarding radios on students helmets, which I had on my first 2 or 3 jumps.

My question is this. If I am not allowed to use a camera until 200 jumps why can a student on the first jump have a radio attached to the helmet?

I saw a Contour camera that seems to be the same size as a radio maybe even a little smaller. I would think that should be authorized for use.

The only reason I would like a camera at this beginner stage of the sport is tutoring. I would think reviewing video of all aspects of my jump would be very valuable in the learning process.

I am more then happy to wait the appropriate time to use a camera I just questioned the radio on students and felt the need to ask.

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Radio on students = you can get realtime instructions from qualified personnel.

Camera (worn by the student) = a shitty POV of the sky with nothing in it. Not useful for tutoring at all, except for when you get video of yourself hitting the tree/garbage dumpster/other stationary object or end up landing in the powerlines/forrest, etc - that way your instructor can tell you "How the FUCK did you not see yourself heading straight for THAT !!!!".

If you want video that will let you review aspects of your jump you need an outside video person.

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Thanks for the reply.

I get the point of the freefall not being useful video, what about the landing? I don't understand how the camera is going to make me hit any of the items you listed. Is the issue with not paying attention to the jump? It's not like I would be taking photos on the way down.

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What did you take from ALL of the other threads on this subject?

A lot of very clued up people have given of their time to answer this question and it would, I think, be valuable time spent on your and other peoples parts to read those threads.

Just a thought

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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Yes. It is an issue of not paying attention to your jump and instead paying attention to what you're capturing on your video. But don't take my advice, take it from the people on here that have thousands of jumps. This topic has been discussed hundreds of times. I'm not flaming you. Just saying.


I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.

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Is the issue with not paying attention to the jump? It's not like I would be taking photos on the way down.

Many incidents have happened with low experience jumpers getting distracted by "trying to get some good video" that they've forgotten to deploy, to flare, to avoid other canopies . . . the list goes on and on. You THINK you won't give into that distraction, but it's very likely you will.

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I get it. Keep in mind I'm not trying to buck the system just trying to learn.

I dont spend a lot of time on the site so I will try and find the post regarding this but my questions has been answered and makes sense.

Thanks for taking the time to inform a newbee

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Thanks for taking the time to inform a newbee

Thanks for listening.:)
There's a thread somewhere in here of camera induced accidents with novices. Maybe someone can link us up.

If you do it right, you have decades to enjoy this sport. I'm in my 4th one. But you have to avoid getting killed or severely injured. Both those things will hamper your jumping. ;)

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You'll find the sport is filled with hypocrisy and generalizations. Many people with 10-20x more experience than I have will tell you it's dangerous, but then they fly a canopy that's considered high performance because they believe they can handle it, just as you believe you can handle the camera.

I would say wait until you have at least 75-100 jumps and make sure you have an audible alti, plus a mount that really reduces the snag-hazard. Build extra time into your prejump routine to make sure messing with the camera does not detract from proper equipment checking, before and after you get into the plane.

After you have a few dozens vids you'll realize it's not as cool as it was and you'll be less interested in it overall until you have a new 'skill' that's recordable, which will probably be some type of freeflying that may begin bearing fruit around the 200-300 jump mark if you practice, etc...

my 2 cents - there will be much disagreement but this is my experience.

Jeff

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You'll find the sport is filled with hypocrisy and generalizations. Many people with 10-20x more experience than I have will tell you it's dangerous, but then they fly a canopy that's considered high performance because they believe they can handle it, just as you believe you can handle the camera.

I would say wait until you have at least 75-100 jumps and make sure you have an audible alti, plus a mount that really reduces the snag-hazard. Build extra time into your prejump routine to make sure messing with the camera does not detract from proper equipment checking, before and after you get into the plane.

After you have a few dozens vids you'll realize it's not as cool as it was and you'll be less interested in it overall until you have a new 'skill' that's recordable, which will probably be some type of freeflying that may begin bearing fruit around the 200-300 jump mark if you practice, etc...

my 2 cents - there will be much disagreement but this is my experience.

Jeff



Actually you hit all the valid points, with the bottom line being that whatever video he produces will be useless at best :) Thus the recommendation to not use a camera for first 200 jumps.

I would like to repeat my point that if the OP really wants video for tutoring, there's no better method than outside video, especially if the vidiot is also a good flyer/teacher and is willing to give feedback.

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my 2 cents - there will be much disagreement but this is my experience.




As you pointed out yourself you have very little experience so any advice you give is short sighted and limited. It's much better to seek advice from those that have much more experience and have been there done that.

Please avoid giving advice that is both dangerous and short sighted.

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You'll find the sport is filled with hypocrisy and generalizations. Many people with 10-20x more experience than I have will tell you it's dangerous, but then they fly a canopy that's considered high performance because they believe they can handle it, just as you believe you can handle the camera.

I would say wait until you have at least 75-100 jumps and make sure you have an audible alti, plus a mount that really reduces the snag-hazard. Build extra time into your prejump routine to make sure messing with the camera does not detract from proper equipment checking, before and after you get into the plane.

After you have a few dozens vids you'll realize it's not as cool as it was and you'll be less interested in it overall until you have a new 'skill' that's recordable, which will probably be some type of freeflying that may begin bearing fruit around the 200-300 jump mark if you practice, etc...

my 2 cents - there will be much disagreement but this is my limitedexperience.

Jeff



(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

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I would say wait until you have at least 75-100 jumps and make sure you have an audible alti, plus a mount that really reduces the snag-hazard. Build extra time into your prejump routine to make sure messing with the camera does not detract from proper equipment checking, before and after you get into the plane.

After you have a few dozens vids you'll realize it's not as cool as it was and you'll be less interested in it overall until you have a new 'skill' that's recordable, which will probably be some type of freeflying that may begin bearing fruit around the 200-300 jump mark if you practice, etc...

my 2 cents - there will be much disagreement but this is my experience.

Jeff


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Hi Jeff~

Just to be clear, you list yourself as a photographer...you have an A, 145 jumps over two years, no ratings...

Don't take this wrong...but at 70 jumps annually that's not much more than one a week, you have a basic 'student' license, no instructional experience...YOU have no business jumping a camera much less telling other students when and how to do it.

With all DUE respect... 'Your' experience on the matter is about worthless ;)

If YOU wanna push it and hope your luck hangs in there that's one thing, don't tell someone with even less of a clue that what YOU choose to do is OK despite what those well beyond your experience level say...people die doing this shit, don't fuck around like that.











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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...........................routine to make sure messing with the camera does not detract from proper equipment checking, before and after you get into the plane.

After you have a few dozens vids you'll realize it's not as cool as it was and you'll be less interested in it overall until you have a new 'skill' that's recordable, which will probably be some type of freeflying that may begin bearing fruit around the 200-300 jump mark if you practice, etc...

my 2 cents - there will be much disagreement but this is my experience.

Jeff



@jrjny, +1 what Twardo said. I'm not going to jump onto what you will undoubtedly see as a bash wagon, but I am curious about a couple things...
1. Where do you jump? Your profile is relatively blank, and I'm interested only in what country and possibly what region of that country. Your DZ if you're willing to share?
2. Who did you work with to get into jumping camera? What qualifications did they have? What training did you do? Etc.
3. Has anyone sat you down to talk about this? Anyone?

I’d completely understand if you didn't want to respond to this here. Please PM me if you prefer. Thanks…
Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

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You're so blind to your own beliefs. I didn't give advice, I simply expressed my opinion with full disclosure of my limited experience. I also highlighted that whatever I said, would be met with disagreement, as predicted :P



You are completely correct that the sport is full of hypocrites. But just because other people are too stupid to follow best practice, doesn't mean that we all should!

At the end of the day there are people who are safety concious out there and don't push the limits. They may not be the cool squad, but I can almost guarantee they are the guys with less injuries.

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You're so blind to your own beliefs. I didn't give advice



No sir, you did. Your exact words were -
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I would say wait until you have at least 75-100 jumps and make sure you have an audible alti, plus a mount that really reduces the snag-hazard. Build extra time into your prejump routine to make sure messing with the camera does not detract from proper equipment checking, before and after you get into the plane.



What do you call that besides advice? You advised him on min. experience required, equipment selection, and training/preperation. You don't think that could be construed as advice?

My question for you is, why do you think you have a place to comment on this at all? Let's be fair, in order to really understand the situation, you need to have experience. I have been a newbie with 30 jumps, I have been a newbie with 130 jumps, and I have also been an experienced jumper with 5000+ jumps, with 4500+ involving a camera. Until you have seen both sides of the coin, how do you know what is, or is not, an appropriate number of jumps?

I know that when I had 100 jumps, there were jumps where I thought I flew 'well', and would have rated my performance as 'above average'. After a few 1000 jumps, I realize now that while I might have flown well for my experience level, I was not really burning up the sky at all, and that I was sloppy at best. The difference is that how many points I turned then vs. how many I can turn now has (or had) no bearing on my safety.

For you to advise (which you did) as to what degree another jumper should bust a reccomedtion of the USPA, when you youself have no real experience to speak from is ignorant in irresponsible. You don't know one way or another what anyone should, or should not be doing, with a camera, and with that in mind, you should be keeping your day-dreams to yourself.

Read, listen, and learn. Don't guess or simply repeat things you picked up here on the web.

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If I am not allowed to use a camera until 200 jumps why can a student on the first jump have a radio attached to the helmet?



That's like asking why you can't use a cell phone while taking driving instruction even though you have a driving instructor in the passenger seat.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Chuck
I thought the reason not to wear the camera prior to 200 jumps was because of snag issues. I did not think about the idea of being distracted because of camera use. I must be still so green that i cant imagine being more fixated on the camera then the task at hand.

I read the post that was attached and it makes perfect sense note to jump with a camera prior to 200 jumps.

I feel bad for all the shit that was given to the guy that suggested differently. I think his point was everybidy is different and maybe the magic number 200 doesnt mean your then safe and one should be responsible for their actions.

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To the OP -- see, you need to think for yourself in this sport. People have lots of opinions. You should read the SIM and make your own. Are fewer distractions better, most likely but you don't need to have a skydiving license to figure that one out.

Go read through the incidents forum..the latest one had nothing to do with a camera. Come to think of it, none have? I mean fatalities - one exception was that BASE check in Asia.

http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Man_SIM_2012.pdf

Page 140

best,

Jeff

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You have such a way with words. :D Brian the guy teaches about fear said this, I'm paraphrasing so its not exact.

If I have a 100 acre square landing area and theres a single tree in the middle. I can tell every student to avoid the tree, theres a 100 acres to land in. Theres no reason to be any where near the tree. Yet a lot will land near the tree, some will land in it, students ,minds are untrained and they tend to fixate on something and ignore what they are taught.

We all do it to a degree, if I say don't look, your first instinct is to look. It seems to be common sense, don't go adding things into the mix before a jumper is ready to do it. Skydiving is an extreme sport, it can be safe and for most part it is but theres not much room for errors.

In my younger days I raced a Bultaco on flat tracks, my dad told me when I got to the point I thought I was good,, Thats when you crash. Different sport but principle is the same, being good and thinking your good are two separate things. On cold mornings my thinking I was good sure makes getting up hard.

Slow down and enjoy jumping, your being safe is not your instructors job once your off student status, its your job. Its your ass on the line.

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.”

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I jump wherever I am. Could be AZ, FL, NY. I was licensed at skydive long island and did AFF at skydive city in Feb 2011. A-57934

Recently moved to Denver and haven't been to Mile High yet...will be in AZ this week though if anyone wants to grab a jump on Weds at Eloy.

Primary reason heading to AZ is to train so if anyone is interested in a 75 mile bike ride and a 10 mile trail run in the national forest let's make an afternoon of it.

I don't make every jump with a camera - as I said it gets kind of boring, the gopro is a pain to use in the plane and I have plenty of footage of myself at this point. It just is what it is. When I have more interesting skills to capture on camera I'll probably revisit it more seriously in 50-100 more jumps.

My precautions before jumping included:
- getting an audible
- reviewing the SIM
- reading dozens of stupid threads like these with zero practical advice, just hostility


What I did not do which I will at some point:
- chinstrap cutaway
- I always left my RSL attached
- 2nd audible (TSA stole mine so I have zero audibles now!)
- talking to someone who flies a camera

best,

Jeff

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And as a noob to another noob:
We don't have the experience to be cognizant of what we are doing during a jump AND be manning a camera at the same time-don't care what you say about anything about this. Regardless of your precautions, you don't have the experience to do this, no matter the "mad skillz" you possess (and I definitely don't have 'em, and don't want 'em 'til I feel I'm good and ready beyond 200 jumps). We don't have the skills required to keep those of us around safe while jumping camera. Lose the camera until you get in line with what regulations state-in Canada and the USA. Your "what I will not do which I will do at some point" comment is really, really, REALLY scary.

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