Skydiving & Families

[kr0me 0]

I have a question that is bound to split the masses. It kept me up thinking about it a lot last night.
We all have families that we love and love us, such as parents, siblings etc and a few of us are lucky enough to have families of our own with children, people that rely on us, people that you would give your life for.
Every decision and every action we make in life has a consequence good or bad. It's up to us to make the right choices to ensure a higher probability of a good consequence for your families as well as yourselves.

No right minded person would deliberately jeapordise the health or happiness of the people that love and rely on us by making a deliberately bad decision but sometimes life deals a cruel hand.
Being the bread winner in my family as well as a father of a gorgeous baby girl, I never take my responsibility lightly and do whatever I can to provide everything my family needs.

We all know Skydiving is a risk, perhaps relatively low compared to some other activities but a risk that we all know can result in leaving those people behind and vulnerable.
This is obviously a subject I've discussed with my wife and she has always made it clear that I should go with whatever I feel is right.
I know this is quite a deep question and one that will result in many different answers but if I pursue a passion that I know comes with risks that could affect my family, does this make me a selfish person?

[almeister112 0]

I've thought about this a lot, too, and while I'm in a different situation (single, no kids) I don't think you're selfish for jumping assuming you don't take unnecessary risks.

I always tell people that I wouldn't skydive if I thought I was going to die doing it. Is it possible for me to be injured or killed? Absolutely. I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm more skilled than the many people who have come before me who have had bad luck or made bad decisions in the heat of the moment and have gone in.

That said, though, I work very hard to minimize the risks I take. I jump with an AAD, use an RSL, load my canopy at 1.3, fly very cautious patterns, and never hesitate to sit down or pull off a load if the winds get sketchy or dust devils show up.

If and when I do have a wife and kids I may reassess and either cut back on jumping or possibly stop outright for a while, but I don't really see that as a necessity. I have many friends who have been jumping for years (half a century in one case), so I do my best to emulate their safety mentality. Odds are very much in my favor that if I stay conservative and safe in my choices I'll be happily jumping for many years to come. That doesn't stop me from making bad decisions, but I'm not flying a canopy with zero margin of error. It also doesn't stop someone from taking me out in a canopy collision, but I do my best to fly safely in the pattern and watch out for everyone around me.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

if I pursue a passion that I know comes with risks that could affect my family, does this make me a selfish person?

No.

And on the other side of the coin, if you go through life unhappy because you failed to pursue your passions for the sake of your family, you would be an unhappy and unfulfilled husband and father, and that would reflect negatively on your family.

Just be careful, and have life insurance.

[airtwardo 6]

It's IMHO a personal choice and there are no wrong answers.

I started jumping when I was 18 and thus it's always been a part of my adult life.

It's something I enjoy and it's important to me.

I think you have to do a little cost/benefit analysis and decide if what you get out of it, is worth to you what could 'possibly' happen.

Of course in order to do that analysis you need to fully understand the risks involved as well as the additional safety margin you can allow yourself by thoughtful & logical mitigation of some unnecessary risks that are present.

My wife and I had some discussion regarding these things prior to the children coming along and made what I think are sound & rational decisions.

I quit B.A.S.E. jumping & she stopped flying air races...both have an unacceptable (to us) fatality/injury rate.

I'm a much more conservative Skydiver in so much as who I jump with and the type of jumping I do...

It is what it is and you can only do so much, there is always the chance you could become one with the planet on any given jump.

Then again there are a 'thousand ways to die' outside of the sport...


But for me the math works out, we have three kids and they've made it to adulthood.

I think them being exposed to the different lifestyles my wife & I enjoy made them perhaps a bit more rounded and aware that the 'off mainstream' somewhat adventurous choices aren't necessarily a bad thing.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[nigel99 143]

It is a really tough call. My parents are really upset that I jump, but I am old enough that what they think doesn't have any influence on my actions.

I've got a family of my own. What I do know is that 15 years I stopped jumping and I resented it, every time there was blue sky I would be looking upwards. I've got back into the sport and am really happy with the decision.

You can take actions so minimise the risks. The other big thing to remember is that skydiving can become 'your life' and with a family that is not fair. A friend of mine and myself jump together 1 day a month - it is OUR day. No I am not going to progress much doing this. I agree with the other answers to your post as well.

[crazychickUK 0]

That's why I quit jumping last year - I could no longer accept that every time I exited the aircraft I could do everything right and still die. I have two young children now which I didn't have when I started (hubby was a skydiver when we met but gave up a long time ago) and for me the risks just aren't worth it. I wasn't getting enough out of the sport to justify the risks.

It's a personal decision though and one that can only be made by the individual. Skydiving was my life for many years but not anymore. I've recently lost my mum which just reinforces the knowledge that I've made the right decision.

I would never judge any mum who skydives, anymore than I'd expect to be judged myself. What's right for me isn't necessarily right for anyone else but I'm happy with my decision.

Quote

[ianmdrennan 2]

Quote

Quote

if I pursue a passion that I know comes with risks that could affect my family, does this make me a selfish person?

No.

And on the other side of the coin, if you go through life unhappy because you failed to pursue your passions for the sake of your family, you would be an unhappy and unfulfilled husband and father, and that would reflect negatively on your family.

Just be careful, and have life insurance.

John is 100% right on this one. If you were to say you wanted to skydive and make it as risky as possible - that'd probably be selfish
Can't go through life scared, or unhappy.

Follow John's advice.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[devildog 0]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-dying

Just something to consider, especially #1

Quote

1. I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.

"This was the most common regret of all. When people realise that their life is almost over and look back clearly on it, it is easy to see how many dreams have gone unfulfilled. Most people had not honoured even a half of their dreams and had to die knowing that it was due to choices they had made, or not made. Health brings a freedom very few realise, until they no longer have it."

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[sebcat 0]

Dan Osman and Shane McConkey had families too. Don't let fear determine anything in your life. Be true to yourself and the people around you.

That's my take on it anyway. Granted, I do not have any children.

[piisfish 135]

Quote

I quit B.A.S.E. jumping & she stopped flying air races...both have an unacceptable (to us) fatality/injury rate.
... we have three kids and they've made it to adulthood.

I think them being exposed to the different lifestyles my wife & I enjoy made them perhaps a bit more rounded and aware that the 'off mainstream' somewhat adventurous choices aren't necessarily a bad thing.

so, are you two finally going back to airracing and BASE jumping ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Quote

I quit B.A.S.E. jumping & she stopped flying air races...both have an unacceptable (to us) fatality/injury rate.
... we have three kids and they've made it to adulthood.

I think them being exposed to the different lifestyles my wife & I enjoy made them perhaps a bit more rounded and aware that the 'off mainstream' somewhat adventurous choices aren't necessarily a bad thing.

so, are you two finally going back to air-racing and BASE jumping ?

Actually...

She's getting a helicopter rating, and it looks like I'm bucket listing Norway later this summer.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[strife 0]

Im currently a student just doing AFF now, I have a wife two kids and have just turned 40 so a late bloomer.

In 2010 I spent 3 months in ICU, with multiple organ failure caused by acute Pancreatitis, I was put into induced coma for 3weeks, and the doctors told my family I would likely not make it.

Well I did make it and in 2012 for my 40th my wife brought me a voucher for my AFF as she new I had wanted to do this for a long time. She is surprisingly supportive (more than I would ever thought) even when I was supposed to turn right yesterday and go to work and I turned left and headed to the DZ.

Shit can happen in all aspects of life but life is for the living.

Blue Skies

[3mpire 0]

Quote

I know this is quite a deep question and one that will result in many different answers but if I pursue a passion that I know comes with risks that could affect my family, does this make me a selfish person?

I've given this a lot of thought as my lady and I are expecting our first son in just under three months.

I look at it like this: life is short and precious. You never know how long you are going to be here. So many people live as if they're going to be 100, that in all their years of living, they haven't lived much at all. what kind of example is that? who would wish a perfectly safe and perfectly empty life for their kid?

Doing something that affirms life, that celebrates your time on this planet, is not selfish. It is setting an example that your kids can look up to. By jumping you can show them that dad is not fenced by life, but steps boldly into a dangerous world with preparation and dedication. That they too can live up to their potential if they so choose, and that fear of bad things happening is no reason to lock yourself into a prison cell voluntarily. But it takes hard work and dedication to do so safely. And it takes a conscious choice to do something that others are afraid to, but in that choice is freedom.

But with that freedom comes responsibility. Make sure you are not wreckless. That you are listening to that voice in your head that says "do you *really* need to be on this jump?" When the winds are gusty or the jump is sketchy, just have the gumption to step aside and be responsible for your safety because you know others count on it. Be the man you're meant to be, not the kid who just hucks it and sees what happens.

failing to be prudent in this sport is selfish. participating in it, however, is not. be safe, be vigilant of yourself and those on your jump, and as much as it sucks, don't do things like BASE, and you should have a clear conscience. at least that is what works for me.

[AHoyThere 0]

You got a lot of good comments so far in this thread. I had been skydiving for about 15 years or so before we had kids.
The twins are going to turn 13 soon.

Skydiving has always been a big part of what I've done and continues to be a big part of what I do today.

One thing that you should be prepared for is that a lot of people, mostly family and wuffos, are going to give you their opinion that you should quit. Just remember that it is your decision and not theirs.

With kids, my wife switched to being a stay at home mom. Which left me to be the sole provider. So, because of that, I took what life insurance that I got from work, and supplemented that with a 20 year term policy that totaled an amount that I hoped they could all live on if I died.

Another thing that I did... During the time from age 3 until about age 8 or 9, I cut my skydiving in half. Instead of jumping Sat and Sunday. I only jumped on Saturday unless there was some dire need by the DZO for help. But he rarely called on me for Sunday help. I called Sunday family day.

Now I'm back to jumping on both Saturday and Sunday and my son comes with me to the DZ and works as my packer.

But everyone needs to make their own decisions in this area.
Good luck with yours.

[dontlikemustard 0]

assuming you are perfectly safe... exactly what are the odds of being in a situation where there is a 0% chance of survival? obviously it can happen, but how low is it? one in a million?

considering the extremely low fatality rates and the fact that most of them are due skydivers pushing their limits... the risks of skydiving seems no different than a lot of other activities.

if i drive past the speed limit in my car, eat unhealthy, jump off 20+ foot jumps snowboarding, ride a dirt bike or quad (which pretty much all my neighbors do), scuba dive at unsafe depths...am I not being selfish as well?

i don't think its skydiving itself that's the problem, but like most things, its your attitude on life and how safe you choose to be.

[billvon 2,380]

>I know this is quite a deep question and one that will result in many different answers
>but if I pursue a passion that I know comes with risks that could affect my family, does
>this make me a selfish person?

Yes - but everything you do for yourself makes you a selfish person. That doesn't make it bad. We all have to strike a balance between things we do to make ourselves happy and our responsibilities to others. Someone who has no regard for the needs of their family, and does whatever they want without regard to them, isn't a very good father/mother/sibling etc. At the same time, someone who abandons their own life in support of someone else's isn't being a very good role model - and is going to end up unhappy.

There's a middle ground where you take your responsibilities seriously but still stay happy. Maybe that means jumping less, or upsizing, or not freeflying or whatever. Maybe that means switching to paragliding or mountain biking or something. Maybe it means doing something altogether different. That's a decision each person makes; there are no rights and wrongs.

[Decodiver 0]

I'm 44, married 10 years this year and have 2 girls one is 6 and one is 3.

I also have a life to live so I live it. I try to minimize risks and be sensible.

My wife doesn't think I'm selfish.

My uncle does, but he's never done anything fucking dangerous in his whole life, so fuck him.

[demoknite 0]

For me, my wife is not so much concerned about the relative safety, but the amount of time and money (she is a stay at home mom) that I sometimes spend at the DZ in order to have "street cred" and progress as needed. Our sport is weird really. If you played basketball all the time and went to basketball camps and "three point training" as a 30 year old people would call you stupid, but we do camps and classes all the time as skydivers when it really adds nothing to humanity. Ranting....

[Krip 2]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I quit B.A.S.E. jumping & she stopped flying air races...both have an unacceptable (to us) fatality/injury rate.
... we have three kids and they've made it to adulthood.

I think them being exposed to the different lifestyles my wife & I enjoy made them perhaps a bit more rounded and aware that the 'off mainstream' somewhat adventurous choices aren't necessarily a bad thing.

so, are you two finally going back to air-racing and BASE jumping ?

Actually...

She's getting a helicopter rating, and it looks like I'm bucket listing Norway later this summer.

That's it Twardo

Marry a pilot and see the world

Now that we can have domestic partners in my state.

I'm going to go trolling for a pilot. There are lot more dudes than female pilots, and I got this splitting headach. Especiallu when my boss finds out

R.

[airtwardo 6]

Marry a pilot and see the world

Quote

...marry a Skydiver and see God!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Unstable 8]

Before I had a kid, I would open the DZ up on Saturday morning at 7, jump hard all day, help close up, get mexican food with the gang, and tumble home at 10 at night. While I believe I can mitigate the risks of skydiving to acceptable levels, I realize that the most precious thing I can give now is my time to my wife and son. Now I leave early early in the AM, jump my ass off, head home about 2 and still have half a Saturday with the fam. Works pretty well.

=========Shaun ==========

[3mpire 0]

Quote

I realize that the most precious thing I can give now is my time to my wife and son

This is one thing I haven't figured out yet. I looked at my log book the other day and I did 196 jumps between Jan 1 and Dec 31. That's including bad weather in the spring, so I easily could have done another 30. Every Friday afternoon, all day saturday, all day sunday, and sometimes on wednesdays I would be jumping.

obviously I won't be keeping that pace but I am curious to see what the balance will end up being.

[Unstable 8]

My little system now is I jump every Saturday until about 2, and either MWF or TU are rigging nights. Works well.

=========Shaun ==========

[3mpire 0]

I like it. I was figuring half days or jumping every other weekend would probably be the best bet. Also flying the tunnel more and jumping less since you can get in and out of the tunnel in a few hours but still get lots of flying in.

[ShcShc11 0]

Quote

Quote

I know this is quite a deep question and one that will result in many different answers but if I pursue a passion that I know comes with risks that could affect my family, does this make me a selfish person?

I've given this a lot of thought as my lady and I are expecting our first son in just under three months.

I look at it like this: life is short and precious. You never know how long you are going to be here. So many people live as if they're going to be 100, that in all their years of living, they haven't lived much at all. what kind of example is that? who would wish a perfectly safe and perfectly empty life for their kid?

Doing something that affirms life, that celebrates your time on this planet, is not selfish. It is setting an example that your kids can look up to. By jumping you can show them that dad is not fenced by life, but steps boldly into a dangerous world with preparation and dedication. That they too can live up to their potential if they so choose, and that fear of bad things happening is no reason to lock yourself into a prison cell voluntarily. But it takes hard work and dedication to do so safely. And it takes a conscious choice to do something that others are afraid to, but in that choice is freedom.

But with that freedom comes responsibility. Make sure you are not wreckless. That you are listening to that voice in your head that says "do you *really* need to be on this jump?" When the winds are gusty or the jump is sketchy, just have the gumption to step aside and be responsible for your safety because you know others count on it. Be the man you're meant to be, not the kid who just hucks it and sees what happens.

failing to be prudent in this sport is selfish. participating in it, however, is not. be safe, be vigilant of yourself and those on your jump, and as much as it sucks, don't do things like BASE, and you should have a clear conscience. at least that is what works for me.

Great comment!

Cheers!
Shc