Skydive Radio discussion on "Spotting and Exit Safety"

[BrianSGermain 1]

Here is a link to a YouTube video with an excerpt from The World's First Skydiving Podcast, SkydiveRADIO:

The topic of discussion is jump run safety: exit order, spotting and other related issues. Please pass on the link!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QK8_T0MSrQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[BrianSGermain 1]

So, feel free to discuss!

Quote

Here is a link to a YouTube video with an excerpt from The World's First Skydiving Podcast, SkydiveRADIO:

The topic of discussion is jump run safety: exit order, spotting and other related issues. Please pass on the link!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QK8_T0MSrQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[bluetwo 0]

Brian, I gotta admit I'm pretty new without a lot of jumps but out of my 60-ish jumps only a few of the exit points had anything to do with any input from me.

It seems like things get a little crazy with the different groups and sometimes we even have pretty big differences in the exit order. I know there's a logic to it all. Maybe it would help to put it all on a chart, I don't know, but with the different opinions on exit order and the different logic it gets pretty confusing to someone who doesn't get to jump every weekend.

I was on a set of canopy course jumps where Pilatus Porter loads were getting out at 12 second intervals, on a 12+ MPH wind day. I mean that seems like a huge difference between the first jumper and the last one and yet everyone made it right back without any issues at all.

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[sundevil777 93]

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Pilatus Porter loads were getting out at 12 second intervals

A porter can fly quite slowly compared to an otter or some of the other larger planes, so it is good that they do use such a long interval.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[bluetwo 0]

Right, right thank you. I almost forgot to account for that planes capabilities.

I do kind of wish we had a Brian Germain's exit order ...recommendation, or just something that could be used like a set of guidelines along with the logic behind each scenario and possibly even some alternatives that would work in different types of conditions.

The Brian Germain's downsizing chart certainly gets a lot of respect and regard and probably a few people who say meh, but at their own risk

Just my 2 cents worth,
Jason Yergin

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[BrianSGermain 1]

How's this, Jason?

Exit Order Safety
by Brian Germain

There are many different views on exit order, although only some of them are based in science. The following exit order plan is based on the principle of "prop blast penetration": the degree to which a jumper remains under the aircraft based on the drag produced by their body position. When a jumper assumed a log drag body position, head down for instance, they follow a longer arc through the sky on their way to vertical descent.
The fastest falling skydivers are freefliers, which means that they remain under the aircraft longest. If freefliers exit the aircraft first, their trajectory will take them toward, and often beyond the trajectory of flat flyers exiting after them. This fact has been proven time and again in the numerous close calls that have led to the creation of this exit order model. Therefore, the best way to create maximum separation between jumpers at deployment time is to have the RW "flat" jumpers exit before the freefliers, regardless of deployment altitude.
Beyond this, we must also consider formation size when planning exit order. Since the last groups out of the airplane are more likely to land off the dropzone, large groups tend to exit before small groups based on the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" principle of human civilization. I concur that this is a good plan, but for another set of reasons. Large groups tend to open lower than small groups due to task fixation and the need for adequate tracking time to create safe separation. This means participants of large formations should open closer to the dropzone. Further, smaller groups have the option of breaking off early, tracking perpendicular to the jumprun and pulling high to compensate for long spots, while the complexity of building a large formation makes it difficult to take such steps toward safety due to the peer pressure associated with the situation.
So this brings us to the preliminary plan of sending the flat flyers out first, in groups largest to smallest, then the freefliers. However, since inexperienced freefliers most often remain under the aircraft for a shorter period of time than vertically oriented freefliers performing perfect zero angle of attack exits, the order should be lowest experience to highest. This also allows the more experienced freefliers to observe the exits of the novices, giving them the opportunity to give helpful advice, and to provide extra time in the door if necessary. If the previous skydiver or group is still under the airplane, do not jump. When in doubt, wait longer.
Following the flats and then the vertical skydivers, we have the students and tandems. The order can be varied here, although there are some reasons to support sending the tandems out last. First, landing a tandem off the dz is safer than landing a student into an unknown location. Second, students can sometimes get open lower than planned, which not only increases their risks of landing off, but puts the instructors at risk of landing off even more as they open lower than their students. Tandems on the other hand have the option of pulling whenever they see fit, which allows the camera flyer to get open high as well.
The last groups to consider are those involved in horizontal skydives, such as tracking, "atmonauti" or steep tracking, and wingsuit pilots. The truth is, experienced horizontal skydivers can safety get out of the way of other jumpers quite easily, and can exit in any part of the order. However, in the case of two or more horizontal skydiving groups, plans must be created and followed with vigilance. For instance, one tracking group can exit first and track out and up the right side of the jumprun, while another group can exit last and offset toward the left side of the jumprun. Three horizontal groups on the same aircraft are best handled by adding a second pass, although there is a great deal of room for creative answers when wingsuit pilots are involved.
The amount of time between groups must vary based on the groundspeed of the aircraft. On a windy day, with an into-the-wind jump-run, the aircraft may move quite slowly across the ground, reducing separation between jumpers. This requires significant time between exits, perhaps as much as 10 seconds or more on a windy day or a slow airplane. The separation between groups can be increased quite easily on windy days by crabbing the aircraft with respect to the upper level winds, a practice that has become increasingly common at large dropzones.
The bottom line is, keep talking. Every load is a brand new set of circumstances, and requires a good deal of thought. Make sure everyone arrives at the loading area at the ten minute call to allow for good planning and preparation. Many close calls could have been easily avoided by skydivers talking to skydivers, and skydivers talking to pilots. Take your time in the door, keep your eyes open and look for each other. It is a big sky up there, and if we work together, we can use all of it to create safe, fun skydives.

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[bluetwo 0]

Utterly Awesome Brian. Thank you, sincerely, for taking the time to give back to the community like that.

I'm gonna print this and carry it around Afghanistan with me for the meantime. I have a few other things I can add it to. Great reading!! haha

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