wildcard451 0 #26 March 31, 2012 Quote1. That line twist wasn't so bad at all, I do get em all the times on rental gear. She shouldn't yanked that toggle. Watch again. It is not just a line twist. I would love to join the lynch mob, however, @ jump 293 I chopped from a canopy wrap and was so amped I punched silver kinda upside down and on my back. Bruised me like a mother fucker. C'est la vie. /more careful attention during packing //plf better ///flare that reserve differently ////consider delaying camera (although no direct obvious relationship to this incident - other than people saying if you can't pack you probably don't have the situational awareness for a camera) She'll have plenty of time to ponder and learn while she heals, which I hope she does quickly and without persistent pain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #27 March 31, 2012 Camera? Check. Arching after a cutaway or during EPs? No. Quote No RSL because of a camera usually means one should be able to deploy the reserve without having it zoom past the camera because of instability... Maybe it's just me, but the attached pic should give one 2nd thoughts about flying a camera at this experience level. Things 'could' have been much worse. Take a look at the 2nd attachment, rather uneven loading on the risers at deployment, I'd be curious if there wasn't possibly some damage incurred during the deployment that made the built in turn...right side was loaded 1st and it had a left turn. Just wondering... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #28 March 31, 2012 Quote1. That line twist wasn't so bad at all, She did kick right out of the line twists, but that's when she found out about the step-thru. Well, that's when I found out about the step-thru, she didn't realize what is was at that time. Look at the line groups just above the links, and when she kicks out of the twists, you can see the step-thru where some of the lines go across and around the other riser group. It starts off up by the canopy, but the slider pushes it down to the links during the deployment. It was jumper error during the pack job, and not completing a line check before starting the pack job. On to a couple of other (more minor) points I have after watching the video again. For staters, you can see the rings of dirt on her cutaway cables when she tosses the handle. Keep it clean people, it's not that hard. Anyone esle notice that she needed an extra hand to pull the soft reserve handle off the main lift web? She's not following the 'peel then pull' technique, and she's just tyring to shear the handle off the velcro, and that's where velcro is the strongest. This is a 'healthy' jumper with no hand or arm injury, and it took her two hands. A silver D-ring would have been easier to grip, but would have also reposnded to a straight pull, no peel required. The round profile of the handle, and the orienation of the velcro allows the handle to do the work of seperating the velcro with no 'extra' steps required to clear the handle. Like a lot of things, I think this is a case of a jumper being prepared for the best case sceanario, not the worst. Jumping a camera when you can't deploy a reserve stable, having the soft reserve handle when you don't know how to use it, and not knowing how to fly a reserve canopy all add up to a jumper who never really thought through or took seriously the idea of a cutaway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #29 March 31, 2012 Nice frame grabsEasy said in hind sight but she still had plenty of height to ensure a stable belly to Earth reserve deployment ... Mistakes happen and hopefully we learn from them . Heal well lass (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #30 March 31, 2012 1) Stay calm 2) Peel the velcro toggles. 3) Practice your flares, altitude permitting, quite a few times. Be ready to flare faster than you're used to, and get less response. 4) Be ready to plf, especially if you don't like the results of #3 5) Approach in full flight.Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #31 March 31, 2012 Quote Nice frame grabsEasy said in hind sight but she still had plenty of height to ensure a stable belly to Earth reserve deployment ... Mistakes happen and hopefully we learn from them . Heal well lass I beg to differ. A stable belly to earth is not optimal for a reserve deployment. Time wise and turbulence wise. A simple correct side up is much better. To the young lady, heal well, and next time no need for panic moves. Needs to be fast but without precipitation.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites demoknite 0 #32 March 31, 2012 From the still frames, she has nice nails, so thats a bonus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #33 March 31, 2012 A stable belly to earth is not optimal for a reserve deployment. Time wise and turbulence wise. A simple correct side up is much better. Quote Not necessarily when there is a snag hazard on your melon... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpsalot-2 2 #34 March 31, 2012 As far as letting other people pack your rig, at least do a line check and stow the brakes yourself, before giving your rig to the packer....It looked to me like she had little penetration into the wind heading toward the airport, then turned around to land....maybe a downwind landing, speeding her up some on landing. I could just be seeing things.... Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tristansdad 0 #35 March 31, 2012 i've learned that there are people here with a shit ton of posts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #36 March 31, 2012 Quote A stable belly to earth is not optimal for a reserve deployment. Time wise and turbulence wise. A simple correct side up is much better. Quote Not necessarily when there is a snag hazard on your melon... still better than "plain on your back, spinning and head low" in my opinion. As said above, the nice nails gives her extra style points scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #37 March 31, 2012 - She didn't look down at the cutaway handle prior to chopping. Once you make the decision to cutaway, your head should go down and you should go to work. No more looking up. - She didn't arch for shit. Put your feet on your A$$ prior to chopping. Arch your torso for all you're worth before and during the chop. - She used two hands on each handle. I prefer one hand on each: chop, then pull reserve. If you use decent technique, you only need one hand on a well maintained rig. PM me if you don't know what proper technique is. - Not using an RSL even though she was slow to pull the reserve. More people die from not pulling the reserve than from having it pulled too soon. I still use mine and I have 10+ successful cutaways, and I jump a GoPro. - A good PLF would have prevented TBB (two broken bones.) - And no need really to huck the handles, but that's not really a safety concern. It's all in how you train yourself. A lot of us jumped mains with ripcords for many years. It really isn't dangerous to hang onto a ripcord while your chute deploys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites toolbox 0 #38 March 31, 2012 ***"I think this is a case of a jumper being prepared for the best case scenario,not the worst" I think you hit it square on the head on this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #28 March 31, 2012 Quote1. That line twist wasn't so bad at all, She did kick right out of the line twists, but that's when she found out about the step-thru. Well, that's when I found out about the step-thru, she didn't realize what is was at that time. Look at the line groups just above the links, and when she kicks out of the twists, you can see the step-thru where some of the lines go across and around the other riser group. It starts off up by the canopy, but the slider pushes it down to the links during the deployment. It was jumper error during the pack job, and not completing a line check before starting the pack job. On to a couple of other (more minor) points I have after watching the video again. For staters, you can see the rings of dirt on her cutaway cables when she tosses the handle. Keep it clean people, it's not that hard. Anyone esle notice that she needed an extra hand to pull the soft reserve handle off the main lift web? She's not following the 'peel then pull' technique, and she's just tyring to shear the handle off the velcro, and that's where velcro is the strongest. This is a 'healthy' jumper with no hand or arm injury, and it took her two hands. A silver D-ring would have been easier to grip, but would have also reposnded to a straight pull, no peel required. The round profile of the handle, and the orienation of the velcro allows the handle to do the work of seperating the velcro with no 'extra' steps required to clear the handle. Like a lot of things, I think this is a case of a jumper being prepared for the best case sceanario, not the worst. Jumping a camera when you can't deploy a reserve stable, having the soft reserve handle when you don't know how to use it, and not knowing how to fly a reserve canopy all add up to a jumper who never really thought through or took seriously the idea of a cutaway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #29 March 31, 2012 Nice frame grabsEasy said in hind sight but she still had plenty of height to ensure a stable belly to Earth reserve deployment ... Mistakes happen and hopefully we learn from them . Heal well lass (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #30 March 31, 2012 1) Stay calm 2) Peel the velcro toggles. 3) Practice your flares, altitude permitting, quite a few times. Be ready to flare faster than you're used to, and get less response. 4) Be ready to plf, especially if you don't like the results of #3 5) Approach in full flight.Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #31 March 31, 2012 Quote Nice frame grabsEasy said in hind sight but she still had plenty of height to ensure a stable belly to Earth reserve deployment ... Mistakes happen and hopefully we learn from them . Heal well lass I beg to differ. A stable belly to earth is not optimal for a reserve deployment. Time wise and turbulence wise. A simple correct side up is much better. To the young lady, heal well, and next time no need for panic moves. Needs to be fast but without precipitation.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
demoknite 0 #32 March 31, 2012 From the still frames, she has nice nails, so thats a bonus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #33 March 31, 2012 A stable belly to earth is not optimal for a reserve deployment. Time wise and turbulence wise. A simple correct side up is much better. Quote Not necessarily when there is a snag hazard on your melon... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 2 #34 March 31, 2012 As far as letting other people pack your rig, at least do a line check and stow the brakes yourself, before giving your rig to the packer....It looked to me like she had little penetration into the wind heading toward the airport, then turned around to land....maybe a downwind landing, speeding her up some on landing. I could just be seeing things.... Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tristansdad 0 #35 March 31, 2012 i've learned that there are people here with a shit ton of posts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #36 March 31, 2012 Quote A stable belly to earth is not optimal for a reserve deployment. Time wise and turbulence wise. A simple correct side up is much better. Quote Not necessarily when there is a snag hazard on your melon... still better than "plain on your back, spinning and head low" in my opinion. As said above, the nice nails gives her extra style points scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #37 March 31, 2012 - She didn't look down at the cutaway handle prior to chopping. Once you make the decision to cutaway, your head should go down and you should go to work. No more looking up. - She didn't arch for shit. Put your feet on your A$$ prior to chopping. Arch your torso for all you're worth before and during the chop. - She used two hands on each handle. I prefer one hand on each: chop, then pull reserve. If you use decent technique, you only need one hand on a well maintained rig. PM me if you don't know what proper technique is. - Not using an RSL even though she was slow to pull the reserve. More people die from not pulling the reserve than from having it pulled too soon. I still use mine and I have 10+ successful cutaways, and I jump a GoPro. - A good PLF would have prevented TBB (two broken bones.) - And no need really to huck the handles, but that's not really a safety concern. It's all in how you train yourself. A lot of us jumped mains with ripcords for many years. It really isn't dangerous to hang onto a ripcord while your chute deploys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #38 March 31, 2012 ***"I think this is a case of a jumper being prepared for the best case scenario,not the worst" I think you hit it square on the head on this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #39 March 31, 2012 Quote- She used two hands on each handle. I prefer one hand on each: chop, then pull reserve. If you use decent technique, you only need one hand on a well maintained rig. PM me if you don't know what proper technique is. We don't know how she was taught; I'd argue that doing whatever method you've been taught and have practiced is more important than doing one method or the other (and there are plenty of other threads to argue the relative merits of one vs. the other). At only 130 jumps, she's likely using whatever technique she learned as a student. I agree with the rest of your list, but I'd argue this one wasn't a safety concern at all."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bluhdow 31 #40 April 1, 2012 Would anyone care to elaborate on the malfunction itself? I'm still new and I'm not sure what would cause a step through during packing. I've done a few google searches but nothing very clear presented itself. Thanks!Apex BASE #1816 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #41 April 1, 2012 QuoteMore importantly, it appears as if the jumper has no idea how to fly an F-111 7-cell. If you notice the flare, it's not complete and she times it so her hands are the furthest down at the same time she hits the ground. If this was a Z-po main, that type of flare and timing would have worked out fine, on a reserve, not so much. I completely agree with this.... These materials have huge differences in flight characteristics. I flew an F111 7-cell at 120 jumps and to this day my right ankel doesn't feel right. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racerman 0 #42 April 1, 2012 Totally unfamiliar with her reserve. Most manufactures do have demos of the reserves they manufacture. While not cool, putting a jump or two on the type of reserve you own will make a difference in the long run. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #43 April 1, 2012 Quote We don't know how she was taught; I'd argue that doing whatever method you've been taught and have practiced is more important than doing one method or the other (and there are plenty of other threads to argue the relative merits of one vs. the other). At only 130 jumps, she's likely using whatever technique she learned as a student. I agree with the rest of your list, but I'd argue this one wasn't a safety concern at all. I appreciate your POV, and there is something to be said for staying with your training. But by 130 jumps, you should be able to make intelligent choices in your EP's and train yourself accordingly. By that many jumps I had switched from rounds to squares, front mount to piggy backs, ripcords to hand deploys. Except for how to fly a square canopy, I was left to my own to figure out and retrain my EP's. Seemed to have done alright. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #44 April 1, 2012 I'm glad I have more demo jumps on reserves than due to EPs. I've had the opportunity to use my own PDR just once and hope I never have to use my OPT, but know it is a great reserve because I put 2 jumps on the demo at a boogie. And I give props to the jumper for posting the video. Most folks would not do so for fear of the possible abuse. It has opened the conversation about what our EPs should be. So we can all be reminded without the pain of a broken bone.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 143 #45 April 1, 2012 Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdbRcJfqtVU Any thoughts besides a terrible PLF? Well unless I missed a post nobody has mentioned spotting. The very first thing that I noticed was the complete and utter lack of spotting. As far as I could tell not 1 person bothered to check out the door for traffic and the spot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #46 April 1, 2012 Quote it appears as if the jumper has no idea how to fly an F-111 7-cell. I got another reminder of that today when a local jumper, with maybe 500-700 jumps, had his first reserve ride. He's an average sized guy but that means he was loading his PD 113 pretty heavily. When he flared, he says he brought the toggles down to his shoulders fairly early, waited a few seconds to get lower, and then finished his flare. Not exactly the best way to do it. Luckily it was a soft muddy field that he pounded hard into, and he was uninjured. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
totter 2 #47 April 1, 2012 Hey John; You can kind of tell that she was a creature of habit. Totally prepared for a normal canopy, but not a reserve ride. She had an issue unstowing the toggles and then when she reached up, not once, but twice and try to collapse the slider. All aside, though, she did save her own life regardless of how ugly it looked on camera. It's probably her first reserve ride and I know that I,myself, always was thinking; "How will I handle it." With the sensory overload the whole cutaway/deployment was probably a blur in real time. Hopefully she will have a quick recovery, be back in the saddle and be able to learn from what is shown on the video Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wetrock 0 #48 April 1, 2012 A PLF would have would have most likely saved her legs as many other people in this post have said. when she lands she positions her feet in such a way the would be too forward to run out and not high enough to butt slide. contacting the ground feet first then knees and butt to ankles. I have seen this exact landing position break legs 3 out of 5 times i have seen it performed. The two times this landing position did not break legs the ground allowed the students to slide on their knees dissipating the energy of landing. i think it happens enough that it should almost be taught as a landing position that will break your legs and should be avoided. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #49 April 1, 2012 WOW there a few things in there all the way from Packing, Tracking (sort of) to landing. Not to mention flying camera with 130 jumps.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gregpso 1 #50 April 1, 2012 Sky hook needed any chance of full drive then flaring properly before landing. Still making corrections very lowI tend to be a bit different. enjoyed my time in the sport or is it an industry these days ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
