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How can I fix these problems in my jumping? (AFF)

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Hi. I'm going through my AFF course but am failing levels and being dropped back, repeatedly, and it has cost me a great deal of money. It took two full months' salary to pay for the course originally, haha! So I really want to sort this out before going any further.

I learn everything on the ground very well, I think. And I know exactly, second-by-second, what I should be doing in the air. I'm happy on the plane, I'm happy setting up for exit, and I get out into the air without hesitation.

But then it all just goes to shit. It's sensory-overload, I guess. All my drills are rushed and frantic, or sometimes forgotten about. I forget to check my altimeter enough, in turns I twist and flap around terribly, and then when it comes time to pull I can NEVER find my toggle. Every time so far either the instructor has put my hand on it (if he can fight me) or has pulled for me. I just can't fucking find the thing.

I basically have no idea what I'm doing in the air, and have little or no memory of it afterwards. Once the canopy is open I'm FINE (after screaming some expletives about how shit the jump was) and I think I judge my landing patterns quite well, and usually land neatly on my feet. But, that's the easy part of course.

I was always very bad at sports and physical things, or intense situations. I'm an uncoordinated and calm person, unused to high-pressure situations that require precision body movements.

I reckon I am not the first person to find myself in this situation during their training. How can it be solved? I'm not going to attempt another jump until I honestly believe I can really do it "perfectly".

What can I do to fix it? My instructors tell me what I need to change, what I did wrong - but I already know what I do wrong. That doesn't mean I can fix it, though. It's not as if I can just say "oh, yea, lol I forgot to find my toggle instead of fumbling around my thigh and back. OK let's go again, I'll do it this time..."

Any tips? I have some ideas for how I will proceed but I'd like to hear from you guys as well.

Thanks

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The only way you can fix it is to make many more sky dives. Trust me when I tell you it becomes like walking down the sidewalk. It all starts with simply relaxing.



Each AFF level I fail costs me £200. That's what I earn in a week. I honestly can't afford to fail another level. Plenty of people have been to wind tunnels, can that help?

And this is the "just keep trying" approach which to be honest I've never really believed in. It doesn't give any useful information about how to actually practice or what to do. I'm currently making a lot of mistakes and doing things wrong. I have no reason to believe that carrying on in the same way is going to lead to improvements.

Obviously whatever I do will involve "move skydiving", but "more skydiving" on its own is not productive. It's like if someone is having trouble learning to drive, you can't just say "drive more". It's dangerous and pointless and won't help them, they'll just reinforce bad habits.

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You're very critical of yourself mate, but if you've known you're bad at physical sports etc, why take up such a brain draining sport?
Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate whether you want to continue?
It can be done if you put your mind to it, I've just come back from Elsinore where I had the privelege of jumping with the B.L.E.S.M.A Trans4mers and one of the lads there was having stability issues, and he persevered and has just got his A licence, only you can decide if you've got the mindset to continue jumping fella

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You're very critical of yourself mate, but if you've known you're bad at physical sports etc, why take up such a brain draining sport?
Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate whether you want to continue?



To be honest I knew very little about it before I started my training. I had no idea that it was so technically challenging, actually - and the brevity of the AFF course implied to me that it was pretty easy to get through. A mere handful of jumps before they let you out of the plane alone.

But really it's extremely tricky, like any other movement sport, maybe like surfing or snowsports. Or even riding a bike... but most of us learn that as a kid when we just soak it up and don't overthink it!

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Take that £200 repeat money to the tunnel. That'll get you 15-20 minutes and sort you right out. I had to repeat level 4 twice before going to the tunnel.

I found the biggest obstacle was knowing that if I blow it again it'll cost me X for a repeat. That put too much pressure on, meaning I couldn't relax.

Don't listen to people saying its not for you. Its way too early to make that decision during an AFF course, which by its nature is a very intensive course.

Head to the tunnel and learn how to relax.

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I was always very bad at sports and physical things, or intense situations. I'm an uncoordinated and calm person, unused to high-pressure situations that require precision body movements.

Well, you may not be a natural, eh?

I'm the opposite, and I still had my moments learning to skydive. How old are you? I feel it's easier to learn when you're younger.

You sound like you do well under canopy. Maybe static line instruction would be better for you. The jumps are certainly less busy than the AFF jumps, and definitely cheaper.

You say you practice on the ground, but do you have it nailed? Can you go thru the dive flow with someone talking in your ear, with distractions all around you? Are you very certain of your actions or a little hesitant? Do the instructors have to prompt you? I've learned a lot of things in my life that I've had to use in stressful situations. The key is to practice, practice, practice until it is an ingrained response, not a thought out action.


Tunnel time would be good. Jumping in the cheaper US would be even better. Here's the prices at my home DZ.

http://www.skydivekapowsin.com/aff.php

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Thanks for the replies. I've already paid up at the DZ, for the whole course, but perhaps if I asked nicely they'd let me keep what remains on my account (enough only to get me to level 5 by now) for future club jumps and then go and try RAPS somewhere else, perhaps.

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In addition to what Dave said, try your practice sessions timed with a timer that beeps - try and reproduce the stress under some time constraint like you have in freefall. Once you can do this timed with other distractions on the ground, you may perform better in the air.....but you still have to relax.

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Find better Instructors.

Okay, I won't leave that dangling . . .

There are some Instructors that shy away from problem students and some that welcome them. The ones that welcome them make it their business to see that you succeed.

They don't get wrote up in PARACHUTIST, get gold medals hung around their necks, don't get called athletes, or cop big endorsements from beverage companies. But they put their heads down at night re-winding the fact you finally turned and burned on your AFF Level 5. And that makes them sleep like babies . . .

So like I said, find better Instructors . . .

NickD :)

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The only way you can fix it is to make many more sky dives. Trust me when I tell you it becomes like walking down the sidewalk. It all starts with simply relaxing.



Each AFF level I fail costs me £200. That's what I earn in a week. I honestly can't afford to fail another level. Plenty of people have been to wind tunnels, can that help?

And this is the "just keep trying" approach which to be honest I've never really believed in. It doesn't give any useful information about how to actually practice or what to do. I'm currently making a lot of mistakes and doing things wrong. I have no reason to believe that carrying on in the same way is going to lead to improvements.

Obviously whatever I do will involve "move skydiving", but "more skydiving" on its own is not productive. It's like if someone is having trouble learning to drive, you can't just say "drive more". It's dangerous and pointless and won't help them, they'll just reinforce bad habits.



yes yes yes. Go to wind tunnels.
It helps you SO much more with muscle memory that you can just focus on other problems that isin't position-related during the skydive.

Tunnels.help.a lot!
Think hard about your financial situation because skydiving can be very draining on the $$, but don't give up because you think "you can't fix it".


I don't think there's any reason to quit until at least after practicing a lot in the tunnels.

Cheers!
Shc

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You're very critical of yourself mate, but if you've known you're bad at physical sports etc, why take up such a brain draining sport?
Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate whether you want to continue?
It can be done if you put your mind to it, I've just come back from Elsinore where I had the privelege of jumping with the B.L.E.S.M.A Trans4mers and one of the lads there was having stability issues, and he persevered and has just got his A licence, only you can decide if you've got the mindset to continue jumping fella



I strongly disagree with you. I am terrible at physical sports, but I really enjoy skydiving and am reasonably good at it. Skydiving is a mental rather than physical sport. In fact back in the static line days we loved the mucho rugby players coming to do a jump - very few of them stuck around and some even refused to jump.

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You're very critical of yourself mate, but if you've known you're bad at physical sports etc, why take up such a brain draining sport?
Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate whether you want to continue?
It can be done if you put your mind to it, I've just come back from Elsinore where I had the privelege of jumping with the B.L.E.S.M.A Trans4mers and one of the lads there was having stability issues, and he persevered and has just got his A licence, only you can decide if you've got the mindset to continue jumping fella



I strongly disagree with you. I am terrible at physical sports, but I really enjoy skydiving and am reasonably good at it. Skydiving is a mental rather than physical sport. In fact back in the static line days we loved the mucho rugby players coming to do a jump - very few of them stuck around and some even refused to jump.



Well, yes and no.
Yes, it's mostly mental.
No, it's what the OPs problem really is...the mental.

We agree that the physical part is not that hard to do. What's troubling him is the mental part and he indicates that with the statements about not remembering and such.

He states that he has trouble with dealing with high-stress situations...and beginning skydivers are under a lot of stress mostly self-induced. This is reasonable given the nature of the sport. He is increasing that stress by worrying about costs on top of the normal worry.

It just may be that skydiving is not for him. At this point, I'm worrying severely about the outcome of a mal given his statements about remembering under stress.

I'm not ready to give up yet...at least as long as he can show some advancements even if ever so small.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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I'm going to go along with the tunnel time for one reason: Giving yourself the confidence that you CAN fly without wobbling all around.

What I'm going to suggest is iffy in that your home DZ may not go for the suggestion.

I'm going to suggest that you take a "relaxation jump".
A no-pressure, no-performance, no-requirement jump to simply allow a slow-down of your brain activity and to be able to open up your sphere of awareness.

A jump to simply apply the "cool, calm and collected" floating and enjoy the view. "Cool, calm and collected is the key to it all and practicing that philosophy can slow down your brain enough to let your body relax and perform as it has been taught.

I might even suggest more than one relaxation jump. The first to do nothing but cool, cal;m and collected, the second to simply concentrate on one specific activity...say reading your altimeter..


Other things can also help you control brain overload. Things like yoga, deep-breathing exercises, self-hypnosis techniques and the like. Those are all well and good but they take time to learn and get comfortable with.

For now, I think a simple relaxation jump would benefit you for the long run.


As an aside, I'd like to add:

You mention "Pass/Fail". This is an unnecessary mindset that contributes to anxiety. It creates mental pressure when they need not be any,

Think of it this way:
Your jumps are designed to teach you specific, individual skills. Your progression proceeds from the simple basic to the more complex....progressive learning.

We can help alleviate some stress by narrowing down our thinking to one skill at a time instead of focusing on what's going on overall. You may have heard, "Take it one step at a time." And that's generally what we are trying to teach you....one step at a time.

What you are doing is learning skydiving skills one at a time. It's important that you demonstrate some level of proficiency at one skill before you move on to the next and it may take more than one jump to get a grip on that particular skill.

You don't fail jumps....it not a final exam. It's a learning process that may take more than one attempt to master....simple as that. We are putting skills in your skydiving tool box.

Concentrate on the tool at hand instead of the entire tool box all at once.


Good luck with your endeavor whatever you decide, eh?
:)

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Find better Instructors.



Ah, no they're great and I feel very comfortable with them. To be honest, in everything I've learned it has mostly been self-directed, and I feel that teachers are there just for guidance and to set boundaries (and in this case to deploy my parachute for me...), so I never expect them to fix my problems. They can't. Only I can.

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yes yes yes. Go to wind tunnels.
It helps you SO much more with muscle memory that you can just focus on other problems that isin't position-related during the skydive.



I hope so.

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I strongly disagree with you. I am terrible at physical sports, but I really enjoy skydiving and am reasonably good at it. Skydiving is a mental rather than physical sport. In fact back in the static line days we loved the mucho rugby players coming to do a jump - very few of them stuck around and some even refused to jump.



I don't see the distinction - the physical is controlled by the mental, it's not separate from it. My body doesn't do what it needs to do because my brain melts in the air. Mental or physical? Well, both, I guess. Some people have very fast nervous systems that can process a lot very quickly and have precise control over the muscles, and some people less so.

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I'm going to suggest that you take a "relaxation jump".



This is a good idea and I'd like to try such a thing. Basically like AFF level 1 again, just all about heading and altitude. It would cost me as much as a full AFF level, though, so I can't really justify it :/


I'll see if I can get to a wind-tunnel soon.

On the bright side, today I am absolutely desperate to get back in the air and prove to myself that I'm not a useless sack of panicking shit. That urge I luckily controlled yesterday, and hopefully I can channel it into productive ways of learning. I have lots of hobbies and have tried lots of different things and learning is always an active strategic kind of thing, it rarely just comes passively for me. I have to find the right steps to take to get where I want to be. AFF on its own is obviously designed to take the average-to-good student through to qualifying. I say this because I assume, reasonably, that skydiving self-selects for people with above-average ability in it and others wouldn't dare try it. So already the bar is set slightly above the ability of the average person on the street.

I don't feel too bad about it now, just a bit embarrassed. On the ground I seem like someone who knows what they're doing and the instructors must be disappointed as well.

I'm stoked to get back up there and impress. Myself.

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Ok Nigel, not nit picking here but try and read what I posted and not react..
First qustion was not solely based on the physical aspect, but the Brain draining part..and I asked why take up skydiving ? Not an unreasonable question I think?
He's clearly having self doubt and low confidence as well, hence why I asked perhaps it's time to re-evaluate if he wanted to continue? Again not an unreasonable question to ask? ..
Now the good part, I gave him the scenario where I was with a guy who suffered terrible confidence at Elsinore last week, but he persevered and passed his AFF and got his A-Licence.
Again, the closing comment was that ONLY HE himself can decide if he wants to continue, where do you actually see me tell him to cut away and take up something else? ..
Now unless I'm missing something, you yourself said skydiving is mental rather than physical, but the poor fella is telling us he blanks out when he's under free fall, is this not a SAFETY concern more than anything? Yes it's fine if he's with his AFFI's but what is he going to be like that when he's on his consoles?
I think as well tunnel time is helpful, but the locations are few and far between, and again, the costs can be more than the OP can afford? I hope he does continue it's an awesome sport, and I'm sure once he gets some self confidence back, but I'd like to also know what his AFFI's have been telling him as well?

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Ok Nigel, not nit picking here but try and read what I posted and not react..
First qustion was not solely based on the physical aspect, but the Brain draining part..and I asked why take up skydiving ? Not an unreasonable question I think?

Basically last year I had a brief and unusual period of motivation to try to some unusual things, out of my comfort zone. So I went and did my AFF level 1.

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He's clearly having self doubt and low confidence as well, hence why I asked perhaps it's time to re-evaluate if he wanted to continue? Again not an unreasonable question to ask? ..

I'll continue at least until my money runs out with the DZ - it's gone either way so I might as well use it.

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Now the good part, I gave him the scenario where I was with a guy who suffered terrible confidence at Elsinore last week, but he persevered and passed his AFF and got his A-Licence.
Again, the closing comment was that ONLY HE himself can decide if he wants to continue, where do you actually see me tell him to cut away and take up something else? ..
Now unless I'm missing something, you yourself said skydiving is mental rather than physical, but the poor fella is telling us he blanks out when he's under free fall, is this not a SAFETY concern more than anything? Yes it's fine if he's with his AFFI's but what is he going to be like that when he's on his consoles?
I think as well tunnel time is helpful, but the locations are few and far between, and again, the costs can be more than the OP can afford?


I can afford some tunnel time. Just about. I don't earn a lot of money but once I qualify I don't have to go every week or anything. I also ski, I really like it, and that's damn expensive - but I can afford a holiday each year if I want and I don't regret taking it up.

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I hope he does continue it's an awesome sport, and I'm sure once he gets some self confidence back, but I'd like to also know what his AFFI's have been telling him as well?



Well my last debrief he basically told me everything I did wrong, I said that I know, he told me what I should have done instead, I said I know. Then I said that I can't do it at this stage and I lack the required control over my body. Tunnel time was suggested, the instructor said it could indeed help, that's about it.

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Ok Nigel, not nit picking here but try and read what I posted and not react..
First qustion was not solely based on the physical aspect, but the Brain draining part..and I asked why take up skydiving ? Not an unreasonable question I think?
He's clearly having self doubt and low confidence as well, hence why I asked perhaps it's time to re-evaluate if he wanted to continue? Again not an unreasonable question to ask? ..
Now the good part, I gave him the scenario where I was with a guy who suffered terrible confidence at Elsinore last week, but he persevered and passed his AFF and got his A-Licence.
Again, the closing comment was that ONLY HE himself can decide if he wants to continue, where do you actually see me tell him to cut away and take up something else? ..
Now unless I'm missing something, you yourself said skydiving is mental rather than physical, but the poor fella is telling us he blanks out when he's under free fall, is this not a SAFETY concern more than anything? Yes it's fine if he's with his AFFI's but what is he going to be like that when he's on his consoles?
I think as well tunnel time is helpful, but the locations are few and far between, and again, the costs can be more than the OP can afford? I hope he does continue it's an awesome sport, and I'm sure once he gets some self confidence back, but I'd like to also know what his AFFI's have been telling him as well?



Totally agree.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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Thanks Andy,

I also worried about the mal side from what he had said.

As someone who really needs to get my head around things for jumping (you know me), I personally feel that a week spent on a DZ like the Farm would be ideal IF the OP really wants to conquer skydiving. The quieter time during the week with lots of time with an instructor could provide a huge boost. I also feel that too little use is made of 'free' on the ground dirt diving. I realise during the weekend it is impractical or difficult for an AFFI to spend a couple of hours doing drills with one person.

Other observations - you get AFFI's who are good skydivers but not necessarily good teachers. On top of that, my personal experience is that there are 2 main types of skydiving instructor, the gentle teacher and the drill sergeant. If I am nervous about something, I actually find the kick your butt drill sergeant more comforting. So even with a good teacher, it is good if the instructors approach suits your needs.

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Well I admire your tenacity. Regardless of how well the jumps are going, are you enjoying them? If you are finding it much too stressful maybe the dz would let you do tandems for the balance?

Otherwise as pops says maybe some no pressure jumps.

Good luck whatever you do.

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Agree with everyone who said windtunnel!!

You said rejumps cost £200 so I assume you're in the UK. The three tunnels there are:
http://www.bodyflight.co.uk/ near Bedford
and
http://www.airkix.com/ one in Milton Keynes and one in Manchester

If you train in a tunnel you'll be in there for a couple of minutes at a time and in between you can have a quick look on a debrief station to see what your body was really doing, then try and correct any problems on the next go. Bodyflight definitely has this facility, think the others probably have something similar.

Which DZ are you doing AFF at? Some of them organise tunnel training sessions. If there isn't a DZ training session and you can't organise something with your coach, then when you book a tunnel session let them know you're doing AFF - the tunnels have people who can help with preparation for AFF jumps and they may be able to lend you a dummy rig to wear in the tunnel.
Anne

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