bluskidave 0 #1 April 2, 2012 FYI effective July 1st, 2012 anyone wanting to make a jump at Sky Dive San Marcos must have an AAD equipped rig. No exceptions! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #2 April 2, 2012 QuoteFYI effective July 1st, 2012 anyone wanting to make a jump at Sky Dive San Marcos must have an AAD equipped rig. No exceptions! Ahhh. Nothing quite like the sound of a stable door being clicked shut, long after the horse has wandered off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 369 #3 April 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteFYI effective July 1st, 2012 anyone wanting to make a jump at Sky Dive San Marcos must have an AAD equipped rig. No exceptions! Ahhh. Nothing quite like the sound of a stable door being clicked shut, long after the horse has wandered off. Doesn't matter. I know at least one regular jumper there that has one and never turns it on. What's next, ramp checks in the loading area?Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #4 April 2, 2012 QuoteFYI effective July 1st, 2012 anyone wanting to make a jump at Sky Dive San Marcos must have an AAD equipped rig. No exceptions! do you have to have it on for every skydive? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hokierower 0 #5 April 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteFYI effective July 1st, 2012 anyone wanting to make a jump at Sky Dive San Marcos must have an AAD equipped rig. No exceptions! do you have to have it on for every skydive? Why would you not turn it on? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #6 April 2, 2012 Is a similar rule for RSL's in place or pending there? I don't have the 2011 fatality summary at hand... but I seem to recollect that use of RSL's could have made as big, if not bigger, reduction in deaths than AAD's last year.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #7 April 2, 2012 >Ahhh. Nothing quite like the sound of a stable door being clicked >shut, long after the horse has wandered off. Although in this cases there are an awful lot of horses still left in the stable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 April 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteFYI effective July 1st, 2012 anyone wanting to make a jump at Sky Dive San Marcos must have an AAD equipped rig. No exceptions! do you have to have it on for every skydive? Why would you not turn it on? If you don't have a speed cypres and are jumping a canopy loaded well over 2.5:1 and start your turn above the activation altitude, you can cause it to fire.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #9 April 2, 2012 QuoteIf you don't have a speed cypres and are jumping a canopy loaded well over 2.5:1 and start your turn above the activation altitude, you can cause it to fire. Then they'll ban canopy loadings over 2.5:1. They had a fatality there from a formation load a few years ago - are formation loads banned too? I disapprove of such knee-jerk reactions to isolated tragedies. If you do the same thing after every incident, banning the "cause" of every accident, then pretty soon there won't be any means remaining to jump. Maybe it's time to implement my plan for a fake AAD unit to make it look like my rig complies with such rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 April 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteFYI effective July 1st, 2012 anyone wanting to make a jump at Sky Dive San Marcos must have an AAD equipped rig. No exceptions! do you have to have it on for every skydive? Why would you not turn it on? If you read the manual and understand the parameters of operation, you may discover that answer for yourself.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamqbishop 6 #11 April 2, 2012 QuoteIs a similar rule for RSL's in place or pending there? I don't have the 2011 fatality summary at hand... but I seem to recollect that use of RSL's could have made as big, if not bigger, reduction in deaths than AAD's last year. “”In this latest issue, Mr. Sitter repeatedly acknowledges the pros for the use of an RSL even to the point of saying, “there would have been fewer deaths in 2011 if the jumpers had used one,” but only briefly acknowledges the cons. He fails to acknowledge that the jumpers who die, including the Tandem pair (Meaning TWO) and a single jumper whom experienced the main/reserve entanglement, most probably had an RSL that deployed their reserve before clearing the main. What I gathered from the report was only one jumper could not find her reserve handle before impact. “” Read the full story in: Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions: RSL/NO RSL?Faster, Faster, Faster Till the Thrill of Speed Overcomes the Fear of Death Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #12 April 2, 2012 If it was your lively hood on the line to an attorney that argues to a wuffo jury that you had a duty to require an AAD you might choose to also. Not that I like it. But I'd prefer to be able to choose to use my water jump, CRW and other spare rigs without an AAD. SSK was handing out keychains made with real Cypres control units. A little grey paint and black cable and your all set.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 369 #13 April 2, 2012 Quote....the jumpers who die, including the Tandem pair (Meaning TWO) and a single jumper whom experienced the main/reserve entanglement, most probably had an RSL that deployed their reserve before clearing the main. Maybe he didn't mention the attributes above because that would require speculation, which is exactly what you are doing. It may be true that RSL's have caused accidents, but any attempt to make a comparison is futile since RSL saves are non-incidents that don't get reported. For the record, I do not jump an RSL.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hokierower 0 #14 April 3, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteFYI effective July 1st, 2012 anyone wanting to make a jump at Sky Dive San Marcos must have an AAD equipped rig. No exceptions! do you have to have it on for every skydive? Why would you not turn it on? If you read the manual and understand the parameters of operation, you may discover that answer for yourself. It was a rhetorical question but thanks for coming off as a complete jackass. Why would a DZO implement a rule like that and say that it's OK for a jumper to NOT turn on their AAD? Sounds like a legal nightmare if something were to happen down the road. If you're an individual who routinely performs maneuvers capable of generating those speeds then you should sell your Expert unit and replace it with a Speed unit to comply with the rules. Buying a $1400 life saving device and then consciously choosing NOT to turn it on is about the stupidest thing that a jumper can do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #15 April 3, 2012 No, making blanke assumptions is the stupidest thing a jumper can do. Not reading the manual and understanding the operation of a potentially lifesaving/deadly device on your back is the stupidest thing a jumper can do. Asking people to spoon feed you information you should be able to figure out for yourself is the stupidest thing you can do. Assuming I'm a jackass, well that's just ignorance. Suffice to say there are times where an AAD can be liability of greater risk than it's potential to save you. On a personal note, at a 112 jumps you can barely wipe your own ass in this sport. Try not to question the experience an wisdom of someone who's been around the block if you value survival. If you don't, hey, ignore and do what you like.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #16 April 3, 2012 QuoteWhy would a DZO implement a rule like that and say that it's OK for a jumper to NOT turn on their AAD? You are just assuming that the DZO is aware and condones this and since the rule hasn't been implemented yet it's not even relevent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 369 #17 April 3, 2012 QuoteIf it was your lively hood on the line to an attorney that argues to a wuffo jury that you had a duty to require an AAD you might choose to also. Not that I like it. But I'd prefer to be able to choose to use my water jump, CRW and other spare rigs without an AAD. SSK was handing out keychains made with real Cypres control units. A little grey paint and black cable and your all set. In the 27 years I have been jumping there have been countless people burn in because they didn't have an AAD (or didn't have it on, thank you Mr. Piras), and not once that I know of has there been a lawsuit or even the threat of one because a drop zone didn't require AAD's on licensed jumpers. I can't imagine a DZ being held liable for the death of a licensed skydiver because they CHOSE not to use a non-required safety device. Maybe that's why I've never heard of any lawsuits.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 369 #18 April 3, 2012 Quote Buying a $1400 life saving device and then consciously choosing NOT to turn it on is about the stupidest thing that a jumper can do. What if it was given to you in an endorsement deal? Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #19 April 3, 2012 QuoteQuoteFYI effective July 1st, 2012 anyone wanting to make a jump at Sky Dive San Marcos must have an AAD equipped rig. No exceptions! Ahhh. Nothing quite like the sound of a stable door being clicked shut, long after the horse has wandered off. Well if we are quoting stupid sayings. "Better late than never".You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #20 April 3, 2012 It's lucky the crw camp I'm holding there is among before the mandate takes effect. I'm not going to spend $1500 on an aad for my dedicated crw rig. It will definitely be the last crw camp I ever hold there if the mandate stands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #21 April 3, 2012 QuoteIt's lucky the crw camp I'm holding there is among before the mandate takes effect. I'm not going to spend $1500 on an aad for my dedicated crw rig. It will definitely be the last crw camp I ever hold there if the mandate stands. At my DZ it's been compulsory for a few years. CReW is exempted above a certain licenseYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #22 April 3, 2012 QuoteBuying a $1400 life saving device and then consciously choosing NOT to turn it on is about the stupidest thing that a jumper can do. You say that, but I guarantee the last weekend I was jumping with you, there were probably a few of us on the plane with them equipped but not turned on. There are good reasons sometimes, but it falls under a very narrow set of parameters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 April 3, 2012 QuoteIf it was your lively hood on the line to an attorney that argues to a wuffo jury that you had a duty to require an AAD you might choose to also. Not that I like it. But I'd prefer to be able to choose to use my water jump, CRW and other spare rigs without an AAD. SSK was handing out keychains made with real Cypres control units. A little grey paint and black cable and your all set. I take my own chances, and I signed their waiver. Drop zones should not dictate to experienced jumpers what equipment they should use. Yep, I should start looking for an old Cypress unit to slip in the plastic pouch on my rig, with the cable appearing to run down inside the reserve. Then I just have to hope that a DZ doesn't require it to be turned on to verify it functions. But maybe I can make a fake display to slide inside the window to even make it appear that it's turned on. Some day soon, trickery may be necessary to make a jump. Next up, a fake RSL. That one will be easy. I'm not a regular at San Marcos, but it's close enough that I've done some boogies there in the past. But now it seems that I'm no longer welcome... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Austintxflight 0 #24 April 3, 2012 I know the talk of fake AAD's is more reactionary, but I think about consequences of such, for example someone borrowing a rig and thinking it has an AAD when its just a dummy to skirt a DZ's rules. I agree we should be responsible for our own safety, but please think twice before going through the time and effort to create fakes as the unintended consequences of such an action could lead to something more serious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #25 April 3, 2012 QuoteIf you're an individual who routinely performs maneuvers capable of generating those speeds then you should sell your Expert unit and replace it with a Speed unit to comply with the rules. Buying a $1400 life saving device and then consciously choosing NOT to turn it on is about the stupidest thing that a jumper can do. It's always nice to receive advice on what we should all do from highly seasoned veterans. Thank you for keeping us safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
