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Christopherg

New student questions(General)

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I have completed 2 tandems an 3 static jumps so far. I have 4 mins tunnel time. My next jump is another practice pull then a real one. having to do both in one day so I'll be making 3 to be cleared for freefall. So any advise is appreciated. any advise for newbies under canopy is welcome as well. I get confused aka lost in the sky when other skydivers do different patterns. whats a generic pattern like left or right to follow an do you try to circle the airport or cut across it? what are you not suppose to do I guess.

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Christopherg

....any advise for newbies under canopy is welcome as well. I get confused aka lost in the sky when other skydivers do different patterns. whats a generic pattern like left or right to follow an do you try to circle the airport or cut across it? what are you not suppose to do I guess.....



This information should be covered by your instructor. Standard patterns differ from one drop zone to the next so there is no good answer to be had here.

In almost every case, your first stop should be the instructors at your DZ.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Ive had a different trainer for each jump. the last jump we both agreed to have min. radio to see if I could chose a proper pattern. I just didn't know if you should cross a runway or not. I end up getting within 10 feet of target so overall depth perception is ok. I know you don't fly over anything you don't want to land on but is flying over a runway something you shouldn't do?reply

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Almost every drop zone has the " no flying over the runway under 1000 ft rule". Keep your head on a swivel watch out for traffic both planes and other canopys
i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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Christopherg

Ive had a different trainer for each jump. the last jump we both agreed to have min. radio to see if I could chose a proper pattern. I just didn't know if you should cross a runway or not. I end up getting within 10 feet of target so overall depth perception is ok. I know you don't fly over anything you don't want to land on but is flying over a runway something you shouldn't do?reply



Runways are not considered obstacles but etiquette concerning crossing or landing on the runway will differ at each drop zone. Of course even if your DZ allows crossing the runway at a low altitude or landing on it you still have to be aware of and avoid aircraft. Even if you have the right of way over an aircraft you will still lose that conflict. ;)
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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I had a gut feeling that it's a no no to fly over a runway just for obvious reasons. I seen a diver cross but I went around it an radio guy asked if I was landing in the town or where IM suppose to be landing..I land within 10 ft of target everytime an last jump was no radio assistance. but his comment made me feel i may have broke a rule.
thanks for the info

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Christopherg

... but I went around it and radio guy asked if I was landing in the town or where I'm supposed to be landing...

... but his comment made me feel i may have broke a rule.
thanks for the info



If anything the instructor says or does isn't clear, you have to ask.

Did you break a rule? I don't know.

What are the rules there?
It's your responsibility to know them. It's the instructor's responsibility to teach them, but if you aren't clear on them, you have to ask.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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thanks for reply, noone really said anything about a rule against crossing a runway aroun 1000ft to get into pattern but it makes sense to avoid crossing anything you don't want to land on. Ive read some blogs an facts about piloting an feel if I stay aware of other jumpers, don't do anything crazy an just focus on getting into playground area an exit proper direction i should be ok. just a matter of having more jumps will answer most my questions. I think the radio guy was joking about my landing but i did cross runways an felt wrong doing it.

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Well, as is often the case, "it depends."

That's why I asked what the rules are there.

Generally, the rule is "no crossing the runway below 1000'".

However, I used to jump at a DZ where the runway was the landing area. You got used to scanning for airplanes while in the pattern really fast. It was a very quiet little airport, and we used the "least used" runway (of two, both grass).
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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yeah the target area is where both runways meet like an offset X its got a northern building layout (browns Airport in weeping water ne) So you cross the end of runway to get to landing area but the playground is usually nw of airfield so either you cross over runway an buildings or go around at a higher altitude. but instructor made comment so I assumed it was ok to cross but gut told me a big NO when I was over it. felt wrong to fly over it I guess.

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Sounds like an awkward attempt at humour by your radio instructor. Please ask him/her to clarify.
Typical newbie confusion that is best answered by local instructors.

Flying over a runway below 1,000 feet risks colliding with an airplane.
Avoid getting downwind of the target with obstacles between you and the target. By obstacles, I mean things that will hurt you if you land on them: forests, open water, fences, telephone wires, railroad tracks, buildings, etc.
Runways present low risk of injury, but high risk of being run over by an airplane.

Other jumpers flying a mixture of left-hand and right-hand patterns confuses everybody. Multiple different landing patterns only works if no-one crosses the wind-line .... er ..... centreline ...... which is why most DZs establish default landing patterns. For example, at Pitt Meadows, when winds are light and variable, everyone flies a right-hand pattern and lands to the west.

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It is difficult to tell from your posts if the problem is you or poor instruction.

Part of your ground briefing before each student jump should include a detailed review of your intended canopy pattern for the current conditions. This should include where you will turn (with reference to landmarks) and your intended altitude at each of those turns. You should be able to tell the instructor your plan before you board the aircraft.

The "multiple instructors" issue is an excuse (either yours or theirs). I have taught in a multiple instructor school where we worked very hard on standardization... students got uniform guidance about canopy patterns (and other issues as well).

An exercise that I have found helpful with jumpers who struggle with canopy patterns is to use an aerial photo of the DZ and have the student draw their intended pattern for winds from at least N, S, E, W with pattern entry points to the N, S, E, W for each (that is 16 different problems for you to solve). By "pattern entry point" I mean that you are at 1000 ft and must begin your pattern.... even if that location is not the ideal starting position.

Your debrief should have been far more than a mere comment from the radio instructor. Your debrief should have addressed each phase of the jump in detail... from setting up in the door to landing.

Do not get on the plane again until you understand the pattern rules and your intended pattern for the jump. Do not let folks rush you to jump until you are REALLY ready. You are the customer.... make damned sure that you are getting your money's worth!
The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

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I got distracted by the other fliers flying a different pattern. I wasn't aware of their plans which is my fault since i did have the urge to ask them when we all were loading up. Im confident in the instructors an trust what they say. next time i wont follow other skydivers into their patterns. I knew better an second guessed myself. I am putting in more jumps this sunday. Ive been practicing arching an reaching for pilot while bringing arm in front of head. 2 more and it's freefall time.:)

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now im ready for freefall this weekend....whats the best way to set up body position after hanging from a cessna 182 wing strut. My arch is relaxed an I don't panic so its just a matter of being able to get to belly/earth position fast enough to no fail the jump. given the first will be automatic pull once clear of plane. I see people before me release an start flipping backwards. I noticed their body looked like a stiff X so if I keep my arch relaxed I should fall right..Any tips will help. I love hanging from that plane as much as next person but it leaves you in such a bad position with little time to correct if spin or flips happen. last guy looked like he almost hung himself.

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Christopherg

now im ready for freefall this weekend....whats the best way to set up body position after hanging from a cessna 182 wing strut. My arch is relaxed an I don't panic so its just a matter of being able to get to belly/earth position fast enough to no fail the jump. given the first will be automatic pull once clear of plane. I see people before me release an start flipping backwards. I noticed their body looked like a stiff X so if I keep my arch relaxed I should fall right..Any tips will help. I love hanging from that plane as much as next person but it leaves you in such a bad position with little time to correct if spin or flips happen. last guy looked like he almost hung himself.



It's the easiest way to exit a plane, you're already in a decent freefall position when you release the strut... Couple cues to help you keep it are look UP and keep your eyes there, ARCH hard and stay symmetrical...

Backflips are propably a result of looking down or lack of arch....

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I was horrible out of the plane on my first few jumps. Flipping, kicking, you name it. It's not natural to jump from a plane at all especially if you are a bit nervous. As my instructors told me, you just need to arch and look at the plane. The relative wind coming off the plane will then grab you and take you to your belly in those first few seconds after you jump.

Another thing that helps is visualization. Ignore what you have seen others do wrong and focus on yourself doing it right. Then right before you jump take a deep breath to relax.

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Quote

My arch is relaxed an I don't panic so its just a matter of being able to get to belly/earth position fast enough to no fail the jump.



You're not trying to get belly to earth. You're trying to get belly into the relative wind. The good news is that you are already belly into the relative wind on the strut. Start your arch while still holding the strut. That includes head position, which should be looking up at the wing.

Above all, do what your instructor tells you. You don't know if any of the idiots on here, including me, know what they are talking about.

- Dan G

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amen on advise online. I will always listen to instructor. I always make sure to keep eye on pilot as I fall so it helps keep arch solid an gives me ability to focus on counting secs. for proper steps for that jump. I think bending the knees an relaxing are a big part of arching. since the guys jumping infront seemed a bit stiff they would tumble backwards often. Im grounded due to high wind for the weekend but will update soon as possible. over all it's a simple process. Relax,arch an pull on time.

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I got one years ago. Just pulled it out of storage last week and threw in a new battery. I'll tell ya what I think after this weekend. :D

I know you're excited, and can't wait to learn more. Sure, read what you can, but trust your instructors to tell you what you need when you need it. I hope you have as many years ahead of you in the sport as I've had. :)

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thanks. yeah the altimeter im using for training is a simple wrist one with rubber loop that goes around fingers. They seem to hurt my fingers when using toggles. so i was looking online just snooping an noticed that altimeter for cheap. Given you get what you paid for so i decided to see what all the real jumpers thought about it. Ill continue to use dz meter but eventually want to get a more comfortable an less bulky device. but all in due time. I love the sport an what to get as involved in it as possible. Like a DZ rat just looking for crumbs

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Whether you buy a digital altimeter (Neptune) or analog (Altimaster 3) depends upon how you learned to tell time.

Since I learned how to read time before digital clocks were invented, I can read analog dials the quickest. I no longer bother focusing on numbers around the edges of the dial. Instead, I concentrate on the ANGLE of the needle. Straight up means that I am high. Straight down means that I am close to opening altitude for tandems (most of my jumps these days) or Freefall students. When the needle points horizontally towards the right (3,000 feet) I am close to solo opening altitude. Finally, when the needle swings into the red arc, I bloody well better have a parachute over my head!

OTOH Young pups who grew up with digital clocks are more comfortable with digital altimeters. Digital altis are preferred by high-speed canopy pilots because they help competitors consistently start their pattern at the same altitude.

Discuss altimeters with local instructors. Ask them when you can try a digital altimeter. Maybe do a few jumps with two altimeters (one digital and the other analog) strapped to the same arm and determine which altimeter is easier to read.

Th only stupid question is the question that you do not know the answer to.

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ive found i like the analog type just for the simple fact that its a simple well tested device that is used by most jumpers. stronger an able to withstand the plf im sure ill have eventually( ive seem to have a nac to land on target each time so far) Digital seems less bulky but if analog comes with adjustable finger strap ill stick with those types for first few years as with most equipment im training with (9cell) im all about bugging instructors. lol

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Ok folks. few more jumps into student course an I'm loving it. Now Im at the point where I need to learn to be able to judge landing patterns for up to 14mph winds. I have landed on target 6-7 times but last time I missed by a bean field lol. I noticed once I made last turn into wind my canopy slowed way down in regards to moving forward. What are some good tips as to how to judge when to make my turns so I don't miss my target. I felt in my gut I went too far on my landing pattern at 1000 ft. but is there tips that can cut learning curve or is it something Ill develop with time. I flying a nav 260 i believe so it's a "Floater" i understand instructor advise is where to go but the more info the better questions I can ask him this weekend.. thanks again peeps

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