popsjumper 2 #26 May 30, 2012 Quoteyou get to deploy into the relative wind which is much more horizontal thus (at least in theory) resulting in much less altitude used up for deployment. Not theory. Here one seems to understand the dynamics of the opening process with respect to horizontal altitude loss on a H&P with immediate deployment.. QuoteIf i was at 300ft and was foced to jump AND HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO SETUP i would pop the reserve, pull the neatly folded canopy out of the freebag, coil the lines up in my dominant hand and exit on my back with the canopy "brick" close to my body to protect it from the wind. And here one would ignore it. WTF?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #27 May 30, 2012 QuoteA reserve *should* open in 2 seconds. A rigger needs to pipe in here to tell about reserve testing specs as per TSO....time and/or altitude or preferably both.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #28 May 30, 2012 http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Reserve-Flight-Char-v3.pdfBirdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #29 May 30, 2012 Yep, I had my numbers wrong. 3 seconds, but not more than two seconds of freefall after activation as TSO C23c, but TSO C23d is the same? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #30 May 30, 2012 I've done literally hundreds of low altitude demos where I pulled immediately after leaving the door. Depending on airspeed I would be surprised if I were more than 100' below the ac under an open canopy. That does of course require that you have the ability to not only leave stable but maintain it through deployment. 300 feet...that IS damn low, but if the alternative was impact, fire & bent-sharp aluminum...I'd give it a shot. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,271 #31 May 30, 2012 Hi Jim, Sometimes 'alternative' is survivable, but don't count on it. Somedays it is not just your turn to die. I was sitting right where the door was. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #32 May 31, 2012 QuoteQuoteA reserve *should* open in 2 seconds. A rigger needs to pipe in here to tell about reserve testing specs as per TSO....time and/or altitude or preferably both. 4.3.6 Functional Test (Normal Pack All Types): For all 4.3.6 tests the maximum allowable opening time for parachute canopies with a maximum operating weight of 250 lb (113.4 kg) or less, is 3 s from the moment of pack opening. For parachutes with a maximum operating weight of greater than 250 lb (113.4 kg) the maximum allowable opening time shall be increased by 0.01 s for every pound of maximum operating weight in excess of 250 lb (113.4 kg). Alternatively altitude loss instead of time may be measured and the maximum allowable altitude loss may be calculated as follows. For all 4.3.6 tests the maximum allowable altitude loss for parachutes with a maximum operating weight of 250 lb (113.4 kg) or less is 300 ft (91.5 m) from the altitude at pack opening. For parachutes with a maximum operating weight of greater than 250 lb (113.4 kg) the maximum allowable altitude loss shall be increased by 1 ft for every pound of maximum operating weight in excess of 250 lb (113.4 kg). NOTE: Altitude loss measurements must be measured along a vertical trajectory only. However, the deviation from the vertical produced by a gliding main parachute descending with a vertical velocity of less than 20 FPS (6.1 m/s) shall be acceptable. If the plane is going down and you are at 300 feet you are not getting out. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #33 May 31, 2012 If the plane is going down and you are at 300 feet you are not getting out. Sparky Quote I may not get open...but I'll get out! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sebcat 0 #34 May 31, 2012 QuoteDepending on airspeed I would be surprised if I were more than 100' below the ac under an open canopy. This is interesting, and something I've been thinking about. Assuming level flight: since the gravitational pull is still the same, and your body isn't generating a lot of lift (though obviously it's not in a vacuum, so air resistance is a factor), you would have fallen roughly the same vertical distance after any given time as if you'd exited from a balloon? Note the question mark, I suck at math. But when you deploy on a hop&pop, you have less air speed than a terminal deployment, so the deployment will be faster (in distance traveled), and the distance that matters is the sum of the vertical and horizontal distance, so you've got that going for you (i.e. a shorter vertical distance). Also, given that the first second or so after exit, you will not fall very far (a couple of meters), is the risk of getting your reserve fucked up worth a pop&hop? Sure, you can get the d-bag effect, but you might not. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm saying this because I'm really not sure if I'm right. Here's a data point for hop&pop deployments (might not be very representative, so bring your own data). Lightning 143 w/tail pocket, unknown exit speed: 0s - exit 1.458s -pilot chute released from hand 2.479s - line stretch 3.750s - slider all the way down 4.479s - airplane in frame as reference (se attached photo, go-pro wide angle, but none the less) OP: I can tell you that if you're sitting in the plane shortly after take-off, minding your own business, thinking about what's for dinner and suddenly the airplane starts to dive or w/e at 300 ft, you're gonna be like "what was that?!", and by that time you realize that you're going down, it's too late. You're too low. Your best bet is to stay in the plane, though (I'm sorry to say, I saw the pictures) that does not mean it's safe to do so, but it's your best shot at survival. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #35 May 31, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMug2yuFNCI Go to 1:10, that's with a 2 second delay and the AC is still pretty close. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL1FblthxQ0 I know it's apples & oranges...but Anatoliy walked away from a pretty low exit. Food for thought... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuai43 7 #36 May 31, 2012 Quote Remember to put a matress under the airplane door, someone could get hurt. and "Arch! Arch! Arch!!"Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuai43 7 #37 May 31, 2012 Quote Quote you get to deploy into the relative wind which is much more horizontal thus (at least in theory) resulting in much less altitude used up for deployment. Not theory. Here one seems to understand the dynamics of the opening process with respect to horizontal altitude loss on a H&P with immediate deployment.. Sort of assumes a specific attitude of the aircraft, doesn't it? Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #38 June 1, 2012 When that video came out I saw a couple of guys that used to jump rounds make the comment that if the parachute had had time to squid then he would not have walked away from that. Apparently he ejected at literally the perfect altitude to survive. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #39 June 1, 2012 Quote Quote Quote you get to deploy into the relative wind which is much more horizontal thus (at least in theory) resulting in much less altitude used up for deployment. Not theory. Here one seems to understand the dynamics of the opening process with respect to horizontal altitude loss on a H&P with immediate deployment.. Sort of assumes a specific attitude of the aircraft, doesn't it? Given that the scenario I responded to as described by the person I was responding to, yep.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
milehigheric 0 #40 June 1, 2012 At 300ft I would still have my restraint on. By the time I reacted, assessed the situation, made a decision, unclipped the restraint, routed it out of my harness, punched some people to get to the door, open it and jump I would be dead. Im not implying im slow but that is alot to do in a very short amount of time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #41 June 1, 2012 I'd probably be praying that I didn't survive the crash only to be a vegetable for the rest of my piss-poor life.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #42 June 1, 2012 Quote I'd probably be praying that I didn't survive the crash only to be a vegetable for the rest of my piss-poor life. What's the crash got to do with it?? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #43 June 1, 2012 If the plane is truely crashing you are probably not saving any altitude by staying put longer; might as well do what you do best and get out... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #44 June 1, 2012 QuoteI'd probably be praying that I didn't survive the crash only to be a vegetable for the rest of my piss-poor life. No problemo, just blink and we'll manage to help. (it's a universal skydiver's call for 'get it done already') I hope you'll remember this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
