N00B On a long spot! What to do what to do!

[shah269 0]

N00B On a long spot! What to do what to do?

Year before last I was jumping a 260 Navigator student canopy. I weigh all of 200lbs with all the gear. And we got out at the right spot but the wind thought it would be funny if they were to push me back...aaahhh.....hum...ok?

Long and short of it I tried grabbing the rear risers...HA! Good luck with that!
I tried getting smaller? Yeah ok!
Rears? Wow going back even faster!


Eventually thanks to my training I had a nice standup landing about 3 miles away from the DZ. But what is a N00B to do? Other than knowing where the outs are what can we do under a moderately to a lightly loaded canopy?

Case in point I'm not on a 210 Triathlon. Just under 1:1
What should I do if I start getting blown back?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[cbrown1311 0]

Check the spot yourself before you exit. Ask for a go around if you are too far downwind to make it back.

[NWFlyer 2]

Take a canopy course. The B license course should be covering that.

Or you could search.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=long+spot&search_type=AND&search_fields=sb&search_time=&search_user_username=&sb=score&mh=50

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[sundevil777 93]

Why would you think pulling down on rear risers would help? That is a technique to use when you are a long way upwind of the spot, not downwind.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[shah269 0]

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Why would you think pulling down on rear risers would help? That is a technique to use when you are a long way upwind of the spot, not downwind.

Hey i was trying everything!

And it was a good spot but as we were in the air the winds kicked up. And as a N00B i pulled at 5k ft which means i was very exposed to the wind.
Eventually I was pulled back about 3 miles. And I landed safely.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[lookoutbelow 0]

I'm a noob myself, but I think I've read that a little front riser might help when trying to get back from a long spot and flying into the wind. I've never tried it and I make no claims of this actually working. :)

And, what I really want to know, because I keep thinking what am I going to do if/when that happens to me, is how did you get back to the DZ? Did you have a cellphone and called for a pickup? Hiked it back? Hitched? :)

[NWFlyer 2]

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And, what I really want to know, because I keep thinking what am I going to do if/when that happens to me, is how did you get back to the DZ? Did you have a cellphone and called for a pickup? Hiked it back? Hitched? :)

There's a strong argument for carrying cell phones (if the area where the DZ is has decent reception - some are so far out in the boonies that a cell wouldn't help much). One thing to think about is to make sure you have the DZ number (not the reservations number, which may not get you directly to someone who can help, but the number for manifest) programmed in. Many a skydiver has hitched a ride back to the DZ in all manner of vehicle... it's part of the adventure of a skydive.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[billvon 2,391]

>Hey i was trying everything!

That might be why you landed 3 miles away . . . .

Generally the best thing to do when downwind is "clean up" as best as possible (loosen chest strap, kill slider if possible etc) and then let it fly at full drive.

[demoknite 0]

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Check the spot yourself before you exit. Ask for a go around if you are too far downwind to make it back.

Yeh right. Most DZs would rather have someone pick you up in their truck than do a go around using fuel and increasing engine hours, especially for a n00b. The OP tried everything they thought would work and in the end landed safely albeit 3 miles away. He/she did the right thing.

[shah269 0]

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I'm a noob myself, but I think I've read that a little front riser might help when trying to get back from a long spot and flying into the wind. I've never tried it and I make no claims of this actually working. :)

And, what I really want to know, because I keep thinking what am I going to do if/when that happens to me, is how did you get back to the DZ? Did you have a cellphone and called for a pickup? Hiked it back? Hitched? :)

Well I tried everying I knew to do to "clean up"
it was a student rig so not like I had much choice.
Eventually the wind died down, i used some thermals from a road to make it a few ft took a left down some ones drive way and landed with the cows like Elvis! Cows were not impressed!

The owner came out asked if i was ok and gave me a ride back to the DZ with some fire wood.

But I want to be a better skydiviver thus why I'm asking.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[DiverMike 5]

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He/she did the right thing.

Unlike a fair amount of people on Dizzy.com, you must spend your time skydiving instead of reading the forums. That is the only explanation for having over 7000 skydives and not knowing that Shah is the most misogynistic male on the planet.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[crotalus01 0]

Well, if theres nothing you can do to make the DZ just pick a clear spot (preferably near a road - watch for powerlines) and land out. It shouldnt be a big deal. I have landed over 5 miles out a few times doing CRW...

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[davelepka 4]

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it was a good spot but as we were in the air the winds kicked up.

OK, you seem to have a misunderstanding. Generally, most of a load will be exiting upwind from the airport, so the winds will blow the jumpers back toward the DZ, and if they kick up, they will just blow you back quicker.

Now on a calm day, the first group or two may exit downwind of the DZ. The reason is that with light winds, if the first group is over or upwind of the DZ, the last group will be way upwind, perhaps too upwind to make it back.

So what they do is let the first group out just downwind of the DZ, to help keep the end of the jumprun closer to the DZ. The trick is that it's typically only the first group, with the second group being right overhead, and the rest of the groups exiting upwind. With only one group downwind, they're not that far downwind, and generally don't have trouble making it back.

So when you report that the winds picked up, and pushed you back from the DZ, it sounds like you were downwind on exit, and too far at that, because an increase in winds pushed you off the DZ. You also say you pulled at 5k, and generally if you pull high like that, you'll be later in the exit order, not earlier, and would be expected to be upwind from the DZ, where stronger winds would help you.

Maybe the winds shifted while the load was up, and the jumprun should have been going the other way, but in the end, if you got you out and then increased winds could keep you from the DZ, it wasn't a 'good' spot. It might have been where they said they would let you out, but it wasn't 'good'.

As far as what to do, 'trying anything' isn't the way to go, because half of 'anything' is wrong, and you didn't help yourself by guessing. Get with a coach and review the techniques for covering the most ground with your canopy, flying both with the wind, and into the wind.

Also, if you got backed up for three miles, and then had to park it in a field with cows, you made another mistake. The error was backing up for all that time, and then taking an off landing in a field with hazzards (cows are a hazzard and personal property, it's best to avoid both).

Think about this, the whole time you were backing up, you could have turned the canopy around and been upwind of a large peice of the planet. Winds that strong could have blown you another mile or two away from the DZ, but this would have given you that many more options for where to land. You could have chosen the best option, and then flown a standard landing pattern approaching the field from upwind, like you planned at the DZ.

If you face into the wind the whole time, you cover very little ground, and leave yourself very few options.

[shah269 0]

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He/she did the right thing.

Unlike a fair amount of people on Dizzy.com, you must spend your time skydiving instead of reading the forums. That is the only explanation for having over 7000 skydives and not knowing that Shah is the most misogynistic male on the planet.

the most misogynistic male on the planet
I don't know about that I mean I do love the ladies and the ladies do love the Shah!

I just need to teach a few of them how to pack for me while wearing bikinis.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[shah269 0]

If you face into the wind the whole time, you cover very little ground, and leave yourself very few options
Ah ok!
Yes I was freaked out and keept trying to "push" forward to the DZ.

You see I was blown to the DZ....and then right over it and then right past it.

So turn around and get a better picture?
Thank you!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[The_Don 0]

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If you face into the wind the whole time, you cover very little ground, and leave yourself very few options
Ah ok!
Yes I was freaked out and keept trying to "push" forward to the DZ.

You see I was blown to the DZ....and then right over it and then right past it.

So turn around and get a better picture?
Thank you!

There it is!! DUHHHHH!!!!

I am NOT being loud.
I'm being enthusiastic!

[sundevil777 93]

Sometimes spiraling down so that you spend less time in the air (time to get pushed away by strong winds) is a good choice, but you must be sure not to collide with others and that you still have time/altitude to get to a good landing area.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[davelepka 4]

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You see I was blown to the DZ....and then right over it and then right past it.

So you overflew the DZ, were you facing into the wind?

If you exited a proper distance upwind, and then faced into the wind and were pushed all the way back to, and past the DZ, then you were jumping in winds much too high for you, or the equipment you were on.

If you exited a proper distance, and then flew with the wind to the DZ, and didn't get turned around until you were past the DZ, then you need to pay closer attention to your position, and still might have been jumping in winds much too high for you or the equipment you were on.

Yes, anytime you are facing into the wind, a quick 180 will have upwind of a huge number of possibilites. With the wind now at your back, can you cover a lot more ground, and reach more options then before.

Also, your 210 will be better in this situation than the 260. The 260 has a lower airspeed than the 210, so it takes less wind to stop (or back up) the 260. The 210 will fly at a faster forward speed, and be able to penetrate higher winds, so you'll be able to get forward drive in higher wind conditions.

[skybytch 259]

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Case in point I'm not on a 210 Triathlon. Just under 1:1
What should I do if I start getting blown back?

Tip #1 - Avoid the situation. Before you even get on the airplane, check the winds both on the ground and aloft. Set a personal wind limit - one that will always allow you to make forward penetration. Stick to it. I load my canopy about the same; my wind limit is the same as the dz's student wind limit.

Tip #2 - Know your local outs, in every direction. Spend time on the climb to altitude locating them. Preplan how you might fly your pattern if you were landing in one of them.

Tip #3 - Take a canopy control course ASAP.

[nigel99 143]

Seriously Shah you need to get some basic understanding of how flight works.

Rear risers reduce the downward angle of the wing, you descend and fly forward slower (unless you stall the wing so that you are falling)

Getting back to the dz has killed people, it's much better to be aware early. I suspect that a huge part of your problem was lack of currency. When we don't jump often our knowledge doesn't really grow. If you were aware at the time you'd have seen that you were getting blown off and needed to hold. Odds are that you flew downwind to the dz, got there at 4k thought oh shit and then tried to hold.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[pchapman 261]

While the 'facts' don't all add up well, I understand that it can be tougher when jumping a big canopy. (I used to jump an accuracy canopy loaded .65 in all conditions as my regular canopy.)

I'm doubt the spot was any good to start with. It's not likely have been fine for someone lazily circling from a 2500' opening but impossible for someone open at 4500' with say a 25mph canopy in a 50 mph wind. Maybe there were really strong uppers that weren't affecting most people under canopy much, or the spot was short anyway because most canopies could deal with the wind.

And had you checked the winds before you went up, knowing you'd pull higher? And as someone else asked, where were you in the exit sequence if you were planning to pull higher?

Getting on front risers when facing the wind can help, but it might only help by who knows 3-5mph on a big canopy. You can hold that for ages if you really want, but usually there's not much point in wearing your arms out if you're still going to be in some big field downwind and be hoping for a car ride back. If front risering is the difference between making a field and blowing back into 80' trees, then go for it.

Nothing wrong with staying facing the wind a long time to minimize blow back, but you do need to know what's behind you soon enough to plan safely where you'll land. So to follow what others have said, if the DZ has more obstacles downwind or you're a noob, you may turn at least somewhat off the windline early, so that your landing won't be closer to the DZ, but is much easier to plan safer.

Nothing wrong with a big canopy in high wind; but you do have to plan ahead a little more.

[DeNReN 0]

Maybe you should go back on radio.....

[The_Don 0]

Ding Ding !!!! We have a WINNER!!!

I am NOT being loud.
I'm being enthusiastic!

[pqrskybaby 0]

Hi, n00b here also , but assuming that you know what the winds are doing before you even get on the plane.. and where your holding area is for that jump, you're probably going to notice you're downwind of your target after exiting the plane, right? Couldn't you just track back upwind before your intended opening altitude? Maybe you won't clear the entire distance depending on how bad the spot was, but your situation is probably going to be looking a hell of a lot better. Thoughtss?

[The_Don 0]

I'll give you a thought.

Shah is a fucking IDIOT!!!
Don't listen to ANY thing he says.

I am NOT being loud.
I'm being enthusiastic!