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arl120384

Demo Streamer Set-up

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Hey Guys,

I'm looking for some advice on a streamer set-up for some upcoming 4th of July demos I have. I would like to make some nice rip-stop nylon red, white, and blue streamers to trail under canopy. I was thinking in the area of 15-20 feet. Any advice on set up, weights, and how to fix the streamers to para cord? I was thinking having a belly bag with a 5# weight and the streamers. I would caribeaner the para cord to my chest strap like I do with flags, and trail the streamer on a cord between my legs.

Thanks for your help!

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> Any advice on... how to fix the streamers to para cord?

Sew.

> I would caribeaner the para cord to my chest strap

In freefall?

> Re: "caribeaner"

Is that a mexican carabiner?

> trail the streamer on a cord between my legs.

Won't that be uncomfortable on your balls?

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Go to a party supply store and buy some rolls of 2” crape paper. Say red, white and blue. Cut off about 20/30 feet of each color and tie them together at one end. Put them down the front of your jumpsuit. After opening and doing a canopy check pull the knot end out first and put it under you leg strap. Put a couple of practice jumps on it before doing a demo.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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I'm looking for some advice on a streamer set-up for some upcoming 4th of July demos I have. I would like to make some nice rip-stop nylon red, white, and blue streamers to trail under canopy. I was thinking in the area of 15-20 feet. Any advice on set up, weights, and how to fix the streamers to para cord? I was thinking having a belly bag with a 5# weight and the streamers. I would caribeaner the para cord to my chest strap like I do with flags, and trail the streamer on a cord between my legs.



Like Sparky says, crepe paper is just so easy, cheap, and safe (as in breaking if it catches on something.)

I built a bag that attaches to my chest strap and has a strap that connects around my body to stow many rolls of crepe paper (ask a rigger or experienced demo jumper before doing something like this.)

5 or so rolls of 80 foot long (the typical party size available at WalMart) crepe paper looks pretty good, and you can give it to the kids when you land.

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I would caribeaner the para cord to my chest strap like I do with flags, and trail the streamer on a cord between my legs.


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Umm...we should probably talk, that sentence alone describes 4 ways to ruin your day. ;)

How many demo jumps do you have and would you describe in better detail what you're use and how you're rigging it. I might be able to give ya some short-cuts that will save you from 'learning the hard' way. B|











~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I would caribeaner the para cord to my chest strap like I do with flags, and trail the streamer on a cord between my legs.


Quote



Umm...we should probably talk, that sentence alone describes 4 ways to ruin your day. ;)

How many demo jumps do you have and would you describe in better detail what you're use and how you're rigging it. I might be able to give ya some short-cuts that will save you from 'learning the hard' way. B|



I'm looking to have a set-up like the 2nd and 3rd photo.

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Anyone have any additional thoughts? I'm researching how to make a safe streamer set up, but there's really no guidance. So I think I'll go with the route I go with attaching a flag, and sew the nylon to some poly webbing for reinforcement.



Really just a little confused. Two jumpers each with over 30 years of experience have suggested a very simple, safe, and effective streamer set up. Gotta ask, what exactly is wrong with using crepe paper? Just in passing, I've used crepe streamers at military airshows with excellent results, and if for some reason it comes loose, it's only an un weighted piece of crepe paper, and even if it fell from 13,000 feet, it wouldn't damage anything/anyone on the ground. Is there some operational reason you need to sew and reinforce something?
I live with fear and terror, but sometimes I leave her and go skydiving.

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Anyone have any additional thoughts? I'm researching how to make a safe streamer set up, but there's really no guidance. So I think I'll go with the route I go with attaching a flag, and sew the nylon to some poly webbing for reinforcement.



The reason I asked you about your demo experience and set-up you are using is it gives me an idea where you are coming from and the type of streamer/banner you probably should be using.

In your earlier post you stated that you attach a flag to your chest strap...attaching anything to your harness that it wasn't designed to have there is a very bad idea. Especially the chest strap.

You said you trail the lanyard down between your legs, think about that for a moment, it could be both hazardous and painful.

In the pics of the streamers I posted you liked the last two, well...all the pics are of the same banner set up, with the exception of the canopy 'tail-feathers' which I wouldn't recommend since it takes some sewing on the canopy, very careful rigging and a bit of practice to deploy correctly.

Ok all that being said, the pics I posted are of streamers made 25 years ago, the are made very well and jumped often, I used one last weekend at an airshow in northern California...we've never had a problem with that set-up.

They're 40' of F1-11 in each color, the front 1/3 is sewn together because a streamer that long will twist and knot up, a streamer shorter than that is less that optimal for crowd appeal.

The leading edge is reinforced with webbing and the lower 1/2 of the leading edge is weighted with tubular nylon filled with #12 lead shot...hanging a solid weight swinging on the bottom of a banner or flag is dangerous, stupid...and SO 1970's

The lanyard has a QE snap that connects to a purpose built container which goes around the jumpers midsection under the rig. It's held closed by two curved pins and double Velcro safety flaps that must be pulled apart to get to the pins. No possible way it can open until the jumper does it.

Those banners cost about 250.00 a piece to fabricate 25 years ago, I'm sure the cost is higher now...but when something is made right it lasts.

Paper rolls cost less, and are safer to jump. I would highly recommend that you not jury-rig some kind of banner set up either from the description you get or the ideas you have in your head. A lot of thought and practical experience goes into working up something that is safe and reliable...unless you have seen what can go wrong, you won't be planning for it in your design or your utilization.

~there is a rigger on this site that manufactures a similar set-up to mine that attaches to your leg...I think the cost is in the range of what mine were years ago...maybe a C note more.

They're well made and will last your WHOLE jumping career...especially if you don't train how to use it right and practice often. :ph34r:










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Anyone have any additional thoughts? I'm researching how to make a safe streamer set up, but there's really no guidance. So I think I'll go with the route I go with attaching a flag, and sew the nylon to some poly webbing for reinforcement.



You might want to heed the advice of Twardo, DEMO jumping is pretty much ALL he does, so he mat just know a thing or 3 about it.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Here are 3 pictures of demo streamers all on the same demo. On one picture, the long yellow streamer is made of two inch nylon tapes cut (hot knife) from a piece of fabric and attached to each other by a double knot. The steamer is attached to the chest strap and is probably the cheapest set up to make. On the 2 other pictures, you could see more elaborate set ups. The guy with different color short streamers had also a electric siren.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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Thanks for the input. Attached are a few pics from a demo this last weekend. I have had all my guidance from a very experienced civilian, and military demonstration skydiver, so I take his advice well. I am not shying away from others' ideas, but I'm just saying this rigging system isn't some dream I had. It has worked for him for thousands of demos, and has served me well thus far. There is a risk with modifying any type of system, however I believe this is a safe set-up. This banner I was flying was attached to my chest strap with a caribiner, and a bridle down to the upper banner grommet. The bottom grommet had a 10# weight on it. It's stored in an belly bag strapped around my waist. I am looking to make a similar setup using the same method for attachment, and looking more like the #2, and #3 photos in airtwardo's post above. A 30' streamer with 3 colors, hemmed for the first third or so, weighted, and the leading edge will be sewn to webbing for reinforcement from the pull of the weight.

I'm all ears with respect to different mounting/deployment solutions.

Thanks again.

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There is a risk with modifying any type of system, however I believe this is a safe set-up. This banner I was flying was attached to my chest strap with a caribiner, and a bridle down to the upper banner grommet. The bottom grommet had a 10# weight on it. It's stored in an belly bag strapped around my waist.

***

There is also a risk using outdated technology when better is available.

Again, hanging a solid weight suspended under a banner or flag is an accident waiting to happen.

If that separates it could kill someone on the ground...you are trusting an 'upper & lower banner grommet' that was never intended to carry 10 pound of weight to do so at the peril of persons & property below you.

If you land near someone either inadvertently or on purpose you can hit them with a heavy object at considerable enough speed to hurt or kill them.

It also serves as a grappling hook that can snag on something when landing, and force feed you a planet...it just doesn't make sense to do that.

Just because that's the way it WAS done doesn't make it the best way to do it...when we came up with how to safely weight the leading edge 25+ years ago, just about every experienced demo jumper I know saw the value of that, and changed their systems. . .both military and civilian.

It looks better, flies better and is safer...period.

Also, attaching something to your harness by a spring clip is asking for entanglement problems plain & simple, you may get away with it for years or you may have a serious problem the next time you do it...why take that chance when better / safer options are available?

If you're clipping it to you chest strap prior to jumping what happens if it gets out of the container in free-fall...
if you're clipping it after you open you are doin' some in air rigging, never a good idea under stress - what if you drop it?

~ also keep in mind your chest strap isn't a load bearing connection in the way you are using it.

Again... a purpose built container apart from your life-saving parachute equipment is the right way to go, one that's designed to carry the flag/banner in a way that it can't get out in free-fall and can easily release the payload if an emergency arises.

Not trying to be condensing but what you're doing has a definite and real possibility of causing you problems.

There are better ways, safer ways for both you and the people you are flying over...use them!

...Or don't, and just hope you survive so I can say 'I told ya so' ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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It looks better, flies better and is safer...period.



+1 We got away with a lot of things learning when there was no one to learn from. Learn from others mistakes, you might not live long enough to make them yourself.

Sparky

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/parachuteflagjumper4-1.jpg
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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Thank you all for your input, I'm glad I posted so I'm now aware of new ideas. I like all the recent pictures of the integrated weight. Not only is it safer, but it looks much cleaner. Do any of you guys have close ups of your assemblies so I can see how and where you attached the tube nylon to the leading edge? Also, I can't see in the photo how you are attaching the whole unit to yourselves, could you share?

I'm trying to get this made ASAP as safely as possible, as I need it for a demo in 2 weeks! Thanks

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Thank you all for your input, I'm glad I posted so I'm now aware of new ideas. I like all the recent pictures of the integrated weight. Not only is it safer, but it looks much cleaner. Do any of you guys have close ups of your assemblies so I can see how and where you attached the tube nylon to the leading edge? Also, I can't see in the photo how you are attaching the whole unit to yourselves, could you share?

I'm trying to get this made ASAP as safely as possible, as I need it for a demo in 2 weeks! Thanks



What you probably want to do is make a integral weighted lanyard set-up that you attach the leading edge of the banner to...that way you can interchange flags & banners at will.

Start with about 6-8 feet of webbing, at the top end attach a steel ring by folding over the webbing after feeding it through the ring and Box-X it. that's your solid attachment point.

Next put some small grommets in the webbing at various points along it's length, every 12 to 18 inches works well...those are you flag or banner attachment points, you can use a couple of heavy zip-ties through the banner/flag grommets and the webbing grommets to attach the item you will be jumping that particular day. You can also use 550 cord or the like.

Make several 'weights' by filling sections of tubular nylon with #12 lead shot, they need to be folded over at each end an sewn securely. Leave a couple inched of empty space in the weight so that it can be folded if necessary when packing the banner/flag.


One 5pound weight will be attached at the bottom of the webbing and a 3 pound one (or two if needed) can be attached farther up.

The weight you need will vary according to the banner size (drag) and the speed of the canopy.

To attach the weights to the webbing you can sew them on or you can use super-tack tied in 4-5 places along the length of the weight-bag ...and then I barber pole super-tack around the weight & webbing to insure it won't separate or shift position.

That's your weighted interchangeable 'leading edge', now you use some heavy nylon line to make the lanyard that goes from the steel ring on top of that webbing to the attachment point on the container...which should have a QR system of some kind on the close end.

Lanyard lengths too will vary with the size of the flag/banner and the speed of the canopy...

I don't have any pics on my lap top so I hope that kinda explains what seems to work for me. ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I think I have a visual, and I think it's going to be a little more difficult than I imagined, since it's been pretty hard tracking someone down with the appropriate sewing gear. I'll keep this in mind for the future however. I think my timeline is a little too tight. Thanks

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I think I have a visual, and I think it's going to be a little more difficult than I imagined, since it's been pretty hard tracking someone down with the appropriate sewing gear. I'll keep this in mind for the future however. I think my timeline is a little too tight. Thanks



Once you have the materials any decent rigger can fabricate it in an hour or two...but since time is a factor give Walt a call at High Performance Rigging, he may have some units available for immediate shipping.

Good luck and be safe!










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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Maybe I will go the crepe paper route for in interim. I'm just worried it'll look cheesy. I found some cheap in 9' rolls. I'll have to glue or tape them together but I may try that out.



It doesn't look cheesy, I know a lot of demo jumpers that use them because they are easy, safe & inexpensive...I've even used several of the 2" shiny metallic like rolls that you can get at a party supply store.

They reflect the sun and look pretty classy IMHO.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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