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Would you want YOUR skydiving to be 100% safe?

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Hi. This came to my mind recently so I thought I'd ask you guys. Imagine if we had perfect and flawless intelligent AADs that completely eliminated any risks surrounding deployment, plus "ALDs", if you will, which can land your main or reserve for you if it detects that you won't manage it safely. Basically, somehow, technology that removes all risks from the activity itself until the jumpers are as safe as the spectators. Don't worry about how that could ever be acheived, but just entertain the hypothetical notion that no one could ever die or be seriously injured during a skydive.

Would that please you?

Would it encourage or discourage your own skydiving?

To what extent is the real risk of obliteration into Mother Earth an attractive or repulsive qualitiy of this sport?

What sort of risk do YOU want in YOUR skydiving, if any? That is to say, not for students, tandems, your friends, or other people - on whom we shouldn't force danger. But, come to think of it, should we force safety on them either? That's another topic, haha. Stick to this one.

You get the idea - feel free to explain your position either way.

Thanks,

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I don't know.

Danger wasn't why I started jumping.

I wanted to go out in space and be weightless,
but I was inconveniently born a couple centuries
before that became commonly available.

And I wanted to fly, like a bird.

And when I was a kid I played WW-II pilot getting
shot down over Germany so I would have to bail
out, and I would fall and fall and fall.

And for a couple summers I spent all day jumping
off the 24 ft diving platform, accumulating several
days worth of freefall one second at a time :-) :-)

And when I finally did start I was really, really scared
until I got stable (11th jump), and that wasn't fun.

And the times after that when I would get in some
situation and be really shit scared weren't fun either.


On the other hand ..

That danger introduced me to intense focus, and
forethought, and paying attention, and I found that
I really liked that.

And I remember, in the late 70's, when life was starting
to transition, wondering why I had to jump in order to
focus like that.

Well, of course you don't. People have known that
for thousands of years. That led to a big thrash of
reading spiritual and meditation books.

And as I became more self aware, or maybe honest,
over the years I found that I was drawn to situations
of concentration and paying attention.

I remember, working at the Academy of Science in
Beijing a few years ago, the first time I decided to
try taking a taxi and get further than walking distance
from my apartment.

It was like the pre-jump jitters of my first jump,
reviewing how to say where I wanted to go, pinchecking
everything I was taking with me, going to the bathroom
again ..

And when I got to the subway and started down the
steps into the vast unknown of god-knows-what
my heart was racing like on any jumprun.


So I guess I'd change my answer from not sure to
about the same as it is now.

I don't like being afraid but I like what I've learned
from it.

Skr

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Hi. This came to my mind recently so I thought I'd ask you guys. Imagine if we had perfect and flawless intelligent AADs that completely eliminated any risks surrounding deployment, plus "ALDs", if you .......



Ummmm? I think what you're looking for is called... "Bowling"! ;)
Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

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Yes I would. People look at me like I am from a different planet when I say I do skydiving for the 'human flight' and not the thrills.

Living on a coastal area, where lots of people have experienced scuba diving, I tell them that it is apparently very similar (a perception of weightlessness, and a 3D playground). Most of them seem to get that.

But then there is a part of me that relishes the fact that everytime I jump, I conquer very real fears.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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It would be great if no one would die or get seriously injured, but having a guarantee of absolute safety may also result in some jumpers becoming complacent during the activity. While that complacency might also result in some really cool records being set (i.e. not having to worry about the what ifs) it would also diminish some of the thrill of having done your best while under the stress of paying attention to how real the moment is. In other words, it may take a skydiver away from truly being in that moment.

But you have to understand, mental illness is like cholesterol. There is the good kind and the bad. Without the good kind- less flavor to life. - Serge A. Storms

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No, I have a very very different risk assessment for myself tbh.

Firstly if things were 100% safe then everybody would be doing them. Which would reduce the allure of it. Without risk, without danger without problems. Life would be boring. I like risk.

Secondly skydiving is ALREADY incredibly safe. Compared to other things:

Motorbiking for example. (UK) 560 motorbikers died horribly last year. I've witnessed people die as well. Next year 500 more will die and the year after that another 500. 1500 bikers are seriously injured and or crippled from crashes. In fact Luke L an acquaintance of mine was killed two days ago.

Yet the biking community vehmently oppose any restrictions on our ability to kill ourselves. Leg defenders for example opposed in the 1980s.

Hi visibility laws again opposed recently.

Bike armor laws again opposed.

Again on 100bhp power restrictions and licencing restrictions. So I can pass my licence and ride a 195bhp missile if I so choose.

The police had a massive campaign about proper riding gear and were lecturing people about it. So a bunch of us got stopped and lectured. All of us stripped down to just helmet and underpants and rode off as a laugh.


Strangely perhour horse riidng is EVEN more dangerous than motorbiking.


Therefore if ypu made it 100% safe it would be boring, and it is often why I do not buy the constant its for safety arguments which are constantly used as a method to end arguments which have merit.

Some people just say its for safety and kill off any debate.

Seriously please don't go down the BPA route where everything is justified on the basis of safety. According to their rules I should be dead by now.

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It's already too "safe". There is a growing element of jumper that is able to continues past an initial tandem in this sport because of the "safety factor" that creates more danger to the rest of us.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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So what you're talking about would be like going on the "Skydive" ride at Disney World??????
No thanks.
I spend a lot of time and effort encouraging safety and good decision making, especially when training new coaches and instructors.
No one wants to see the sport become more dangerous, but what you're talking about isn't my sport. What you're talking about is a "no personal responsibility needed" experience.
I already find the sport being sold that way too much today.
As such, there is no choice in your poll that i can vote for.
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

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The safer you make skydiving the more inventive skydivers will become at finding more ways to kill themselves.



I believe this 100%. People are geniuses at putting themselves in danger. There was a taxicab study where they compared crash rates of cabs with (and without) anti-lock breaks. You'd think cabs with anti-lock breaks would have less crashes, but it didn't happen, because the drivers "compensated" for the extra safety by being more reckless.

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So what you're talking about would be like going on the "Skydive" ride at Disney World??????


That reminds me- the "find a way to somehow hurt yourself" phenomena still pops up, even in comparatively safe places.
When I was growing up, Disneyland had a ride in Tomorrowland called the PeopleMover. It was a tame trainlike ride that went about 5-7 miles per hour. You'd think nobody could get hurt on it.
Yet it had two fatalities: Each passenger tried to climb out of one car and into another. Both ended up being dragged and crushed.
I've always wondered if the fact that they were 1)on a tame ride 2) at Disneyland, gave them a false sense of security. Had they been in a rickety carnival thrill ride, they may have stayed put.
My blog with the skydiving duck cartoons.

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I know people find thrill in stretching the limits. That is part of the allure of skydiving. But, if it was made safer, less people could/would get hurt or killed

I think you captured it very well -- part of the allure is stretching the limits. If you make it safer, the limits will be moved way in, and a different type of person will have access. And they will stretch their limits, and get hurt.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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I believe this 100%. People are geniuses at putting themselves in danger. There was a taxicab study where they compared crash rates of cabs with (and without) anti-lock breaks. You'd think cabs with anti-lock breaks would have less crashes, but it didn't happen, because the drivers "compensated" for the extra safety by being more reckless.



Risk homeostatis is a well known and studied phenomenon is a variety of fields. Within Skydiving it is known as Booth's Law #2
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

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I think it would be great to have the best safety equipment possible. However, I'm not comforted by my safety equipment nearly as much as I'm comforted by the training I'm doing as a student and will continue to do when I obtain my license. I started learning to skydive because I've always wanted to be a pilot of some sort, and skydiving allows me to essentially fly myself around while careening towards the dirt. Plus, it's fun as hell. Knowing that I couldn't possibly die wouldn't take away the fun for me, but I'm sure there are plenty of others who think differently. More power to them, they do some pretty incredible stuff.

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if things were 100% safe then everybody would be doing them. Which would reduce the allure of it.



For some.

I couldn't care less if everybody and their granny skydives, as long as I get to keep doing it.

I don't do it because it's dangerous. I sure as hell don't do it because it makes me some kind of elite.

I do it because it's difficult, and beautiful, and because the people I love do it with me.

I voted 'perfectly safe', so they could keep doing it with me until we all die of old age.
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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