AFF student struggling with stability

[diablopilot 2]

Who says you're behind? Do not compare yourself to others performance. YOU are learning in your way, not them.

Stop seeking the goal in your mind so hard. Look to what the instructor wants you to do this moment, not a week or a month down the road.

From a physical standpoint, your hips should be pushed down hard, to the point where you have your butt cheeks pinched so tight that it hurts. Everything els should be some what fluid.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Just guessing huh????? I seem to recall several hours spent in the tunnel with some team that had a name like a VCR button

Screamin' Cheetah checking in.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[antibac 0]

The only issue I've had with my stability is wobbling, if you know what I mean. This happens when I'm tense. What helps me is looking at the horizon, breathe calmly and slowly bending my legs a little (this is because my legs have been stretched out way too much). I also thought practicing dummy pulls helped, my issue was being too wobbly right before deployment , also turning against my will (not fast turns, but enough to give me slight line twists :p). If I exited at 15000 feet, I would be stable until about 5000 feet, where the wobbling and turning would begin. This is definitely because I was really tensing up, I just needed to relax, which is easier said than done :) Had a bit of the wobbling issue during my AFF-course, but it's mostly been a problem on my level 8-jumps, but I've managed to "fix" the problem now :) Practice, practice, practice.

Just take your time and don't stress it, talk to your instructors about it. I did, and I got the "breathe with your stomach"-tip, and that actually helps a lot. You'll get it eventually, nobody is expecting you to be a pro :) Just have fun!

Oh, one more thing, do you get your jumps filmed? I thought this was really helpful! Maybe it could help you out a bit?

[tomahawkpilot 0]

Quote

Simply running to the tunnel to try and fix the problem may not work if you are still tense when it comes time to exit an actual plane. Don't get me wrong, tunnel time can be beneficial. But it does't sound like your problem is something technical (stability, spinning, etc.).

Well, that's the weird thing. I feel relaxed. I enjoy the jump out. I look forward to it. It's just that when I try to put my body in the position I practiced on the ground, I end up making every muscle stiff and probably overcontrolling my body. It's hard to tell if I'm doing it right, besides keeping track of altitude and doing the tasks.

The last time I really thought I would nail it, I was so excited, but I ended up being even more unstable.

[sunkenstate 0]

I wrote "DICK FIRST!" on the top of my altimeter hand with a permanent marker.

It is funny (relaxing) and instructive (deep body arch). It was also a hit with the instructors and fun jumpers.

Might loosen you up a bit. Also, 10 minutes of tunnel time helped me tremendously.

D

[popsjumper 2]

You beat me to it, Wendy.

I sincerely hope you don't mind but I saved your link a while back and I use it for students who are having problems with their rate of advancement.

Believe it or not, most of my students have responded well to seeing that their issues are rather minor as compared to some others.

You are an inspiration to them and you are appreciated by all of us.

Thanks.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

I wrote "DICK FIRST!" on the top of my altimeter hand with a permanent marker.

Funny you should mention that.

For students who can take the humor, I help them with the arch like this:

There's a picket fence in front of you and your GF/BF is on the other side saying, "Give it to me". YOU have to reach for it. Now go get it!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tomahawkpilot 0]

Quote

It took me 48 jumps to get off student status. Learning to relax in Freefall was challenging :).

For a laugh you can read my student logbook here:

http://crwdog.servebeer.com/CRWdog/HowCRW.html

7700 jumps later I'm starting to get the knack of it. Just keep trying and listen to your instructors.

Wow, so does that mean you didn't start soloing until jump 48 or you got your A license then?

[ghost47 18]

Quote

It's just that when I try to put my body in the position I practiced on the ground, I end up making every muscle stiff and probably overcontrolling my body. It's hard to tell if I'm doing it right, besides keeping track of altitude and doing the tasks.

When you arch on the ground, your muscles have to be stiff, because, if they were relaxed, you'd be lying in a sprawled position.

In the air, you don't need to be so stiff, because the air will push certain things up, if you relax your body.

Could that be what's causing the issue? Is your method of putting yourself in an arch the same in the sky as on the ground?

[faulknerwn 36]

Yep. Static line progression but my first solo jump was jump number 49 :)

[adagen 0]

you will really struggle to be tense and stiff if you have a great big smile on your face

+1
Most of my experience is in the tunnel rather than the sky, but on so many occasions I have watched someone struggling with stability because they are tense or concentrating too hard. Then an instructor manages to get them to smile or laugh and suddenly they relax and stop fighting the wind. Once that happens, they become much more stable.

And if tenseness isn't your problem, smiling still helps - it makes your face look much better on photos and videos

Anne

[tomahawkpilot 0]

Quote

Is your method of putting yourself in an arch the same in the sky as on the ground?

Yes!

Shifting between pretend and real seems to be an issue for me.
When I was practicing exits on the mock-up, I jumped out and did my arch while standing up. They said, "Look at the horizon." So I looked at the horizon. "No, your horizon." The one with trees on it is the only one I see, I said. What they really wanted was for me to tilt my head back.

[tomahawkpilot 0]

Quote

Yep. Static line progression but my first solo jump was jump number 49 :)

Which was your 28th freefall. Well, thanks for posting that. You've just proven that it's not a big deal.

[ghost47 18]

Quote

Yes!
Shifting between pretend and real seems to be an issue for me.

Then I'll echo other people's recommendation of a wind tunnel if such is financially and geographically feasible, and this continues to be a problem. 15 minutes of freefall without having to worry about death or injury may give you a better sense of what it feels like to have a good arch in the air, as opposed to on the ground.

[spage 0]

Quote

It took me 48 jumps to get off student status. Learning to relax in Freefall was challenging :).

For a laugh you can read my student logbook here:

http://crwdog.servebeer.com/CRWdog/HowCRW.html

7700 jumps later I'm starting to get the knack of it. Just keep trying and listen to your instructors.

Wow, that looks exactly like my log book so far. It is encouraging to see that someone who had the same struggles as I am having turned out to be a pro.

Thanks for that post.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Wow, that looks exactly like my log book so far. It is encouraging to see that someone who had the same struggles as I am having turned out to be a pro.

Thanks for that post.

I didn't turn into a pro but I think I've turned out okay. It took me 20+ jumps to get cleared for solo status, 37 to get my A license. Stable exits were the worst for me - I really struggled with hop & pops in particular.

Seven years later, this past Saturday, as a USPA Coach, I took two students out for their first hop & pops. I can totally relate to their anxiety about the jump, and I can also tell them that even if you have a tough time you'll eventually get there. As someone who's now working with newer skydivers, I wouldn't trade my student struggles for anything - I feel like it helps me to really relate to the students who aren't "naturals."

We all have our own pace in this sport. Mine, in general, has been on the slow side, and I'm okay with that.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Toasted_Cracker 0]

I had a lot of trouble starting out too. What really helped me was to visualize the entire jump from start to finish in your mind the eintire way up. Take slow deep breaths when the door opens and you await your turn to jump.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

Well, that's the weird thing. I feel relaxed. I enjoy the jump out. I look forward to it. It's just that when I try to put my body in the position I practiced on the ground, I end up making every muscle stiff and probably overcontrolling my body.

That's the problem right there, how you're being trained on the ground. When you lay on a creeper and arch up against gravity, your arms and legs are using the wrong muscle groups. In freefall, the arms and legs are actually pushing down against the air. This is why "legs out" is one of the most common signals given in AFF.

Practice your body position with someone pushing up on your feet and hands. This is what freefall is really like. Also, on your next jump, try taking a deep breath, then let it out and let your arms and shoulders go limp, completely relaxed.

Although I was trained static line, I was shown my body position for long freefalls the same way, rigid practice against gravity on the ground. I wasted 3-4 jumps trying to overcome the flat spins induced by that rigidity. The air is a fluid medium. You need to be fluid with it. And quit worrying. It's like riding the proverbial bicycle. Once you "get it", you'll have it, okay?

[Austintxflight 0]

One thing that helped me is when people would give me the relax hand signal I didn't really know what to do with it. When they started telling me to breathe, take a deep breath I instantly started to relax, not sure if that helps, but as a recent jumper I've noticed that all the hand signals are very defined legs out, arch etc, but relax is not as simple, maybe come up with specifics on how to relax like take 2 deep breaths or something else that works for you.

I end by saying I know nothing so ask your instructors, but just giving you what worked for me with a similar issue.

[oldwomanc6 38]

Quote

Quote

Well, that's the weird thing. I feel relaxed. I enjoy the jump out. I look forward to it. It's just that when I try to put my body in the position I practiced on the ground, I end up making every muscle stiff and probably overcontrolling my body.

That's the problem right there, how you're being trained on the ground. When you lay on a creeper and arch up against gravity, your arms and legs are using the wrong muscle groups. In freefall, the arms and legs are actually pushing down against the air. This is why "legs out" is one of the most common signals given in AFF.

Practice your body position with someone pushing up on your feet and hands. This is what freefall is really like. Also, on your next jump, try taking a deep breath, then let it out and let your arms and shoulders go limp, completely relaxed.

Although I was trained static line, I was shown my body position for long freefalls the same way, rigid practice against gravity on the ground. I wasted 3-4 jumps trying to overcome the flat spins induced by that rigidity. The air is a fluid medium. You need to be fluid with it. And quit worrying. It's like riding the proverbial bicycle. Once you "get it", you'll have it, okay?

I try not to post on this forum (because I'm not current), but this is such a common problem, and physics don't change, so... What happened to "RW Stable" ? Relaxation in motion, as it were?

I was taught this by lying on a small table (torso-sized) upside-down. At that point, relax and let gravity do its work. Sort of like air pressure is in freefall. Upside down "dangling" in freefall.

To the OP: once you learn what a relaxed body position truly is, then it is easy to learn the rest.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

[

I try not to post on this forum (because I'm not current), but this is such a common problem, and physics don't change, so... What happened to "RW Stable" ? Relaxation in motion, as it were?

There are many teaching techniques that are more effective than the ones being used by most instructors. I would guess inertia and lack of imagination causes us to keep doing things "the way we've always done them."

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

In freefall, the arms and legs are actually pushing down against the air. This is why "legs out" is one of the most common signals given in AFF.

Practice your body position with someone pushing up on your feet and hands...

Good stuff, John. While I don't do that for the arm/hands, I do tell them to consciously think about the air pressure on their shins and insteps. I demonstrate that with them in the horizontal trainer by putting my hands on their shins, lifting the legs to simulate wind, and telling them to put some muscle into it to keep the legs out and feet even.
(Note: Careful that they don't completely straighten the legs when they put the muscle into it. It's quite common and will need to be corrected and practiced until they can do it while maintaining the bend in the knees)

I tell them to feel the wind pressure...if they don't feel it, it's because they have their feet on their butt. Extend the legs so you feel the pressure.

Seems to work in for those awake and aware enough to actually think of it in freefall. But then, there's the ol' Legs Out hand signal for those who forget.



Side note:
"In freefall, the arms and legs are actually pushing down against the air."
I know it's semantics maybe but I tell them that the wind will be pushing up on their hands and arms.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

One thing that helped me is when people would give me the relax hand signal I didn't really know what to do with it.

I tell my students that the Relax signal means "let your hands go limp. Let the air blow by you smoothly."
Wavy wrist signal? Limp wristed? Get it?

Funny watching students sometimes actually shaking their hands in freefall like they are trying to get a booger off their fingers.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Quote

One thing that helped me is when people would give me the relax hand signal I didn't really know what to do with it.

I tell my students that the Relax signal means "let your hands go limp. Let the air blow by you smoothly."
Wavy wrist signal? Limp wristed? Get it?

Funny watching students sometimes actually shaking their hands in freefall like they are trying to get a booger off their fingers.

When I was a stiff noob, one of the longtime jumpers told me to wiggle my fingers in freefall. For quite a while that was my "chill myself out" action. Amazing what it does to relax a tense body.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[PhoenixPhive 0]

yoga