Soft opening canopy

[btvr 0]

I was out at the DZ today where a student jumping a spectre 230 got spanked hard and broke lines and he had to cutaway. Not normal for spectres!! obviously a bad pack jump or line dump. I jump a tri and I love it but no matter what I do in packing she always has a little "snap" just after the snivel. Nothing hard but noticable. Friends who have spectres say they are really sweet and soft opening canopies.

[airathanas 0]

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I've been jumping a Pulse for the past week, and am really impressed with how soft it opens.
Plus...it lands itself. it's a canopy for folks that just wanna enjoy a casual flight down to the ground (or for those that have torn their ACL's), and is not a super sporty canopy.
Having 1K jumps on a Silhouette and 1K + jumps on the Storms, and a few hundred jumps on a wide variety of canopies...I'd look at the Pulse. Gonna really hate sending this one back.

That's so funny that you mention the Pulse and torn ACLs DSE, because that is the canopy that I am demoing right now. I'm coming back from an ACL surgery and I do not want to jump the Stiletto I was jumping before when I got hurt. It does open very softly and on heading. The landings were so nice and gentle. What a luxury!

http://3ringnecklace.com/

[NWFlyer 2]

Having put about 200-300 jumps each on a Spectre, Pilot, and Pulse, here's my experience.

My Spectre spanked me once. That was when I was a brand newbie and I deployed quite head-low. That was body position, NOT the canopy.

My Pilot smacked me three times. None of them had any unusual body positions going on. They were all bone-shakers, one involved broken lines.

My Pulse has yet to smack me.

YMMV, but just goes to show that any canopy can smack you, even those with good reps.

The Spectre and Pilot were more snivelly, the Pulse is a bit more positive, but still quite soft. It's been pretty reliable with on-heading, too. Sometimes I'll look up and see it wanting to hunt while it opens, but it will settle in exactly on heading.

I have not jumped a Safire 2 so can't comment. The handful of jumps I did on a Fusion were all soft, but ALL 90 degrees off heading.

As for flight/landing characteristics - your best bet would be to demo as many as you can to find out what works best for you.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Bip 0]

I now have about 400 jumps on my Pulse. It is the perfect canopy for me.
I had a Spectre before which gave nice openings but was a bit too snively for me and would spank me on occasion.

[PiLFy 0]

A Pulse opened softer than a Storm w/dacron lines? Were they @the same wing loadings? What was the wing loading? The Pulse isn't available w/dacron, right?

[DSE 3]

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A Pulse opened softer than a Storm w/dacron lines? Were they @the same wing loadings? What was the wing loading? The Pulse isn't available w/dacron, right?

I couldn't say. Haven't jumped either one with Dacron, I believe someone else was talking about Dacron on a Spectre?

[Joellercoaster 6]

The softest-opening canopy I've jumped so far was the Crossfire2 - but this is probably not a good idea for a first (or even third) canopy.

I've owned a few Pilots now and, while last weekend I proved that - packed badly enough - anything can spank you () they've been extremely gentle.

On the gripping hand, all those professional stills-and-two-video setup guys on Spectres must know something!

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[DaVinciflies 0]

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I was out at the DZ today where a student jumping a spectre 230 got spanked hard and broke lines and he had to cutaway. Not normal for spectres!! obviously a bad pack jump or line dump.

This again?

Line dump does not cause hard openings.

Bag strip can but it's not the same thing.

[skydiverek 54]

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A Pulse opened softer than a Storm w/dacron lines? Were they @the same wing loadings? What was the wing loading? The Pulse isn't available w/dacron, right?

I couldn't say. Haven't jumped either one with Dacron, I believe someone else was talking about Dacron on a Spectre?

I own Spectre 190 which used to have Microlines (bought it second-hand like that). Having read about people injured during openings, as well as being a person who uses packers (no control of mine over the packjob...), I wanted a "fuse", just in case. That is why I installed Dacron. The difference is big! Not only during those very rare harder openings, but during every opening! (Dacron is not slippery like Microline, creating lots of friction for the descending slider grommets). Result: slider comes way slower on EVERY opening.

I also installed a smaller collapsible F-111 PC, resulting in almost no snatch force felt (again, big difference).

Talking to Norman Kent (who carries up to 32 lbs on his head), he said he also ordered one size larger slider (for his Dacron-lined Stiletto) with brass grommets (for even more friction).

Moreover, be aware of the potential problems between long Dacron lines and Slinks (heat issue, scortching Slinks, confirmed by master rigger Mike Gruwell and PD). Although, this concerned large student and tandem canopies.

Dan BC from Arizona Airspeed also relined his Stiletto with Dacron, after his spine infury.

Also, check this from PD:

"Why would anyone want to use Dacron line on their canopy?

Though most people prefer the lower bulk and drag of Microline or Vectran, Dacron is often the best choice for some applications. Dacron is a fairly elastic line, so it gives a little when there is a sharp "spike" to the opening force. This elasticity won't change the really good openings very much, but it can take the edge off those occasional abrupt openings where your packing was a little off or your airspeed was a little high at opening time. Dacron may be preferable in a student operation, where unusual body positions can compound opening issues. Some camera flyers with very heavy helmets also prefer Dacron lines. Older jumpers, who may not want to subject their bodies to hard opening.".

I switched from Microline to Dacron on my 7-cell Spectre 190, installed Slinks and also installed Slink hats (protectors), but installed the hats upside down, so that they take any heat first, and not the Slink. I inspect the Slinks every few jump days, and after 200 jumps they are in very good condition.

MORE: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3975036;search_string=dacron;#3975036

[keithbar 1]

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Icarus canopies open really soft. The Crossfire2 is not suitable for beginners (hehe) but you might consider a Safire2 after due time. Had one and was very satisfied with it.

my crossfire 2 is the softest opening canopy I have jumped. and I've jumped alot of different shit over the years. my tri spanked me a few times. and the sabre a bunch till i got wise and put the pocket slider on it. ymmv

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[skinnay 0]

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Pilot. I don't think my pilot has ever taken less than 700 feet to open. I had a severe back injury and jumping a pilot is the only way I can continue to skydive. I highly doubt I will ever jump anything else.

can you please let us know how you measure that 700ft ?

I actually have my own proprietary methods for doing this, however I will let you know that it involves some precomputed telemetry calculations, a small bag of orange dust, and an abacus.

[BIRDDOCTOR 0]

Safire2 is the softest opening canopy I have ever jumped(200+jumps). Never had even a stiff opening even with shitty packing. I have a Pilot too which opens soft too ( with the exception of 1 hard opening after packer). You can't beat a Safire2 for soft openings. I have also jumped sabre1/2, Spector, and a storm, sillohette.

Base# 1638

[keithbar 1]

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Safire2 is the softest opening canopy I have ever jumped(200+jumps). and a storm, .

how many jumps do you have on the storm? I ask because I have a total of 1 jump on a storm. and was wanting to see what other jumpers thought of the canopy

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[filonic 0]

Hmmm. PD's lead canopy test pilot John LeBlanc and pretty much everyone I have ever talked with about hard openings disagrees with you. What makes you think line dump can not cause(or contribute to) a hard opening? Take a look at the document on PD's website about how to avoid hard openings. http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/hrdopn.pdf
You'll notice in the line stows section it clearly says that a line dump scenario where locking stow(s) come out can lead to premature inflation of the canopy, causing a brutal opening shock to be transmitted to the jumper's body at line stretch. They say this can cause an opening hard enough to break lines.

Here is a video of John LeBlanc talking about hard openings, in it he talks about line dump and out of sequence openings and says that they can cause hard openings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVAoiLl2B6M

unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.

[filonic 0]

I have about 80 jumps on a storm 190 lined with Dacron, it opens fairly soft, but nothing like a spectre, much shorter snivel and inflation. The one opening I have had so far that was "very brisk" didn't bother me very much, but I can't say how much that may or may not be due to my Dacron lines as I have never jumped a storm without Dacron lines. Overall, love the canopy, however I actually prefer the flare characteristics on the spectre and have had more consistent and easy landings on the spectre.

unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.

[pchapman 261]

The reply that was to davinciflies:

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PD's lead canopy test pilot John LeBlanc and pretty much everyone I have ever talked with about hard openings disagrees with you.

No. See below.

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You'll notice in the line stows section it clearly says that a line dump scenario where locking stow(s) come out can lead to premature inflation

The problem is that we don't have a consistently applied definition of "line dump" in the skydiving community.

Thus many say that line dump DOES NOT lead to hard openings -- because "line dump" refers only to the lines other than those in the locking stows dumping out. If the locking stows go or the canopy in any way starts coming out of the bag prematurely, that's a separate category, "bag strip".

Others say line dump DOES lead to hard openings, because if the lines in one or more of the locking stows dumps out prematurely, the canopy can start inflating prematurely. Lines are lines, and anything they prematurely dump out of, including locking stows, therefore counts as "line dump".

Thus much of the battle is about the definition of "line dump", not what the cause of hard openings is.

[Olmed 0]

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So how many feet do you burn up with the Pulse opening ? Is it a long sniveler ?

I have about 90 jumps on a Pulse 210. Also have some jumps on Silhouette and Navigator.

Not sure if I would say that Pulse even has a snivel. At least not compared to the Navigator. I think the openings are very quick but at same time soft.

Had the first hard opening the other day. No injuries. Do not know what caused it.

Pulse is a great canopy but it is not a racer.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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The reply that was to davinciflies:

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PD's lead canopy test pilot John LeBlanc and pretty much everyone I have ever talked with about hard openings disagrees with you.

No. See below.

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You'll notice in the line stows section it clearly says that a line dump scenario where locking stow(s) come out can lead to premature inflation

The problem is that we don't have a consistently applied definition of "line dump" in the skydiving community.

Thus many say that line dump DOES NOT lead to hard openings -- because "line dump" refers only to the lines other than those in the locking stows dumping out. If the locking stows go or the canopy in any way starts coming out of the bag prematurely, that's a separate category, "bag strip".

Others say line dump DOES lead to hard openings, because if the lines in one or more of the locking stows dumps out prematurely, the canopy can start inflating prematurely. Lines are lines, and anything they prematurely dump out of, including locking stows, therefore counts as "line dump".

Thus much of the battle is about the definition of "line dump", not what the cause of hard openings is.

That's exactly what I was getting at. My bad for being too vague on defining the terminology.

The key point is that the canopy stays in the bag until linestretch. I jump a semi-stowless bag (just two locking stows) and have not been slammed yet.

[voilsb 1]

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Safire2 is the softest opening canopy I have ever jumped(200+jumps). and a storm, .

how many jumps do you have on the storm? I ask because I have a total of 1 jump on a storm. and was wanting to see what other jumpers thought of the canopy

I've got about 600 jumps on a dacron lined storm 150, loaded at 1.55:1. It would routinely open so slow and soft that I'd get a slider stuck a foot or two above my risers, and take over 1,000 ft to open. So I replaced the stock 23x31 slider with a home-made 18x28 slider. I now get mostly acceptable openings, but sometimes I still get my slider stuck 6 inches or so above my risers, and sometimes still get 800ish foot openings.

Brian

[jtiflyer 0]

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The reply that was to davinciflies:

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PD's lead canopy test pilot John LeBlanc and pretty much everyone I have ever talked with about hard openings disagrees with you.

No. See below.

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You'll notice in the line stows section it clearly says that a line dump scenario where locking stow(s) come out can lead to premature inflation

The problem is that we don't have a consistently applied definition of "line dump" in the skydiving community.

Thus many say that line dump DOES NOT lead to hard openings -- because "line dump" refers only to the lines other than those in the locking stows dumping out. If the locking stows go or the canopy in any way starts coming out of the bag prematurely, that's a separate category, "bag strip".

Others say line dump DOES lead to hard openings, because if the lines in one or more of the locking stows dumps out prematurely, the canopy can start inflating prematurely. Lines are lines, and anything they prematurely dump out of, including locking stows, therefore counts as "line dump".

Thus much of the battle is about the definition of "line dump", not what the cause of hard openings is.

If people honestly believe the 1st definition of line dump that you give, then I have line dump every jump. Quite a few people now jump semi-stowless bags. There are only 2 stows and the rest is free stowed like a reserve.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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If people honestly believe the 1st definition of line dump that you give, then I have line dump every jump. Quite a few people now jump semi-stowless bags. There are only 2 stows and the rest is free stowed like a reserve.

Exactly! In our case (semi-stowless bags), "line dump" is a meaningless term. The issue is caused by the canopy coming out of the bag prematurely - not the lines coming loose.

Premature stripping of the bag off the canopy can lead to the slider moving down the lines before it is forced to by the inflation of the canopy and/or bottom skin inflation instead of span-wise inflation through crossports. These can both lead to slammers.