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clustermagnet

and the worst DZo award goes to :

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I have this crazy idea that DZO's should be accepting of skydivers, in all their different flavors, since that's their business.



I have this crazy idea that people should be allowed to run their businesses as they see fit as long as it is legal. DZOs don't owe you ANYTHING.

They take on a shit ton of risk, to provide us a playground.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

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I have this crazy idea that DZO's should be accepting of skydivers, in all their different flavors, since that's their business.



I have this crazy idea that people should be allowed to run their businesses as they see fit as long as it is legal. DZOs don't owe you ANYTHING.

They take on a shit ton of risk, to provide us a playground.




Exactly what he said..... end of story!
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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So, would all of you have equal praise for a DZO that banned wingsuits, banned CRW, banned hook turns, mandated AAD's, banned wing-loadings above 1.5, banned full-face helmets, and mandated RSL's, all in the name of safety?



I might not jump there, but I would applaud the guy for running his business the way he wants and looking at safety issues.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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No, it is not a strawman. JohnRich is not asking for a judgment on the first statement by replacing it with a second. He is asking a completely separate question, with different substance than the first. One's response to JohnRich's question would not change one's opinion on the original statement (which is the purpose of a strawman).

Besides, it is only a strawman if it is used to replace an argument.

Though this could easily be a strawman in the correct context, in this case (as with others that you are trolling JohnRich in), it does not strictly meet the criteria of a strawman. JohnRich's arguments/statements are much closer to a red herring or an argument from adverse consequences than a strawman.

In other words, you are committing an argument of prestigious jargon in your accusation of JohnRich's question (which, admittedly, heads towards a slippery slope/fallacy of composition argument), while also using a red herring to try and undermine his question while providing nothing to the conversation.

In other words, you are trolling.

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Does anyone know what the swooping rules are there? Do they allow turns over 90?

Dz.com shows AAD's not required and hook turns allowed but could be out of date.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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Would love to know the whole story as it seems as if wingsuiters were singled out. Almost would make more sense if they had previously banned turns over 90 if truly concerned about risk (don't agree with that either)

Don't agree with what the DZO did, but their playground, their rules. :)
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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The alternate (student) field is 1 mile away. Grass is waste deep in the spring, and totally rutted out by tractors.
The DZ 'borrows' the field from a local hillbilly

If you show up to Snohomish, and the DZO has not approved you landing 'at the airport', you will be asked to land at the student field. (regardless of your rating)

If you're jumping with a low number jumper, you'll be landing at the student field :)

Exactly what happened to me... DZO gave us an extensive briefing, looks at my knee brace, my D license, smirks, and told me to go land in the student field. asshole failed to mention grass was super high. Crossfires dont like tall grass.

fuck that place

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asshole failed to mention grass was super high. Crossfires dont like tall grass.

fuck that place



You're mad at someone else for you deciding to land your crossfire without looking at the LZ first? yeah his rule seems a little rediculous, but come on dude.....

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asshole failed to mention grass was super high. Crossfires dont like tall grass.

fuck that place



You're mad at someone else for you deciding to land your crossfire without looking at the LZ first? yeah his rule seems a little rediculous, but come on dude.....



absolutely, lesson learned :)

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and the worst DZo award goes to:



Bill Dause, hands down.



Not so.... I would rank the idiot in Oregon #1 of all time. Can't remember the name right now. He's not a DZO anymore. 20/20 had a feature story on him years ago. The stuff that came out of that was appalling.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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and the worst DZo award goes to:



Bill Dause, hands down.



Not so.... I would rank the idiot in Oregon #1 of all time. Can't remember the name right now. He's not a DZO anymore. 20/20 had a feature story on him years ago. The stuff that came out of that was appalling.



He is not a DZO anymore. That leaves Dause in the top spot.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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The more we ban all this high risk fringe activity in the sport, the more safe it will be, and the less public pressure there will be to attack us. If we can just get everyone to do only 4-way and style-and-accuracy, then we won't have anything to worry about any more. That should be enough to keep anyone entertained. So I hope the DZO's go for it, and help wipe out all that freaks flying head down, pretending to be migrating geese, intentionally running canopies into each other in the sky, and playing chicken with the ground with hook turns. Bring it on!

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The more we ban all this high risk fringe activity in the sport, the more safe it will be, and the less public pressure there will be to attack us. If we can just get everyone to do only 4-way and style-and-accuracy, then we won't have anything to worry about any more. That should be enough to keep anyone entertained. So I hope the DZO's go for it, and help wipe out all that freaks flying head down, pretending to be migrating geese, intentionally running canopies into each other in the sky, and playing chicken with the ground with hook turns. Bring it on!



Why would they stop there? :|
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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Recently -on another thread - posters were complaining that USPA had no teeth and DZOs were not grounding enough people for stupid stuff.

Now the DZO of Snohomish grounds one group BEFORE they kill anyone, and a few people slander him.
Silly!
Hypocritical!



I was one of those "other post" posters, not complaining mind you ,but stating simply that enforcement of the rules happens at the local level. Not that there is not enough groundings.

I have to respect this DZOs reasons for not catering to specialized offset jump runs as a personal and local decision. Not hypocritical ! As long as the reason is sound and not based on fear mongering coming from the wingsuit community itself I have to give the guy a break. Are the local WS pilots happy about that, maybe not. Don't confuse the two.

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Worst DZO?

I've been jumping at Snohomish for the last
four years and I have a different impression
of Tyson.

He reminds me of Bryan Burke down at Eloy
who looks at the whole system and how the
various components fit into the overall
situation and tries to let people do as
much as they can without endangering others.

And I'm sure he would like to be doing some
wingsuit jumps himself.

But I think he's up against the question of
how to coordinate really different flight
modes, like swooping with regular canopy
flight this is wingsuits with straight
downers and high pulling tandems.

And I think the real sticking point is the
effort it would take to keep new wingsuiters
out of the straight downer airspace.

Multiple landing zones and airplanes add to
the complication, but I think the training
to keep the airspaces separated is probably
the stumbling block.


Didn't Mark Twain say something about people
who do what's right even when it's inconvenient
and unpopular?

Something like aggravating some and astonishing
the rest? :-) :-)

Skr

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^ why can't the people in wingsuits turn their wingsuits and find airspace that is clear of any traffic? Why is it so much more complicated at their dropzone for the flight path of the wingsuiters to bear off the clusterfuck of opening canopies?

I've jumped many times with 20-30+ people in the sky on the load and if anything I feel safer in the air because I have a wingsuit. I am over everybody (except the clear and pullers if there are any) and can guide my flight to a clear space to deploy.

Is the DZO feeling the lack of training there? I'd thought that was COMMON SENSE to fly in clear space!

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why can't the people in wingsuits turn their wingsuits and find airspace that is clear of any traffic?



I tried this thing, called reading, and it seems that a combination of 2 LZs, 3 planes, and densly populated surrounding areas all add up to nowhere for them to go.

I'm sure that the DZO of a busy 3 turbine DZ, the expert jumpers and wingsuiters he consulted, and all the time he invested in trying to figure this out were just no match for your intellect and expertise. Maybe do all of the locals a favor, give him call, and just explain how it possible for wingsuiters to safely share the airspace around Harvey Field.

Tyson Harvey (weird, that's the same name as the airport) 360-568-7703

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