Am I a being a wimp?

[Namowal 0]

Several weeks back I banged up my knee and ankle in a sloppy landing. Nothing serious- mind you, just some swelling, bruising, stiffness. No pain that Advil can't tackle. Nothing's broken or sprained.

However, ever since it happened- I'm seeing a pattern. By the end of the week, said leg is still a bit sensitive but more or less normal. Then I go to the DZ, have a klutzy landing (I usually have at least one), and I'm back with a fat knee, fat ankle, and a cranky limpy leg.

Part of me thinks "You're just making it worse. Take some time off and let it heal."
The other part of me thinks "So? You can stand on it. You can walk. Fellow jumpers have smashed their bones to pieces and you're worried about this? Wimp! Get out there and jump!"

So should I stop whining and get myself back to the DZ? Or cool it for a week or two, just to be safe?

My blog with the skydiving duck cartoons.

[christelsabine 1]

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Several weeks back I banged up my knee and ankle in a sloppy landing. Nothing serious- mind you, just some swelling, bruising, stiffness. No pain that Advil can't tackle. Nothing's broken or sprained.

However, ever since it happened- I'm seeing a pattern. By the end of the week, said leg is still a bit sensitive but more or less normal. Then I go to the DZ, have a klutzy landing (I usually have at least one), and I'm back with a fat knee, fat ankle, and a cranky limpy leg.

Part of me thinks "You're just making it worse. Take some time off and let it heal."
The other part of me thinks "So? You can stand on it. You can walk. Fellow jumpers have smashed their bones to pieces and you're worried about this? Wimp! Get out there and jump!"

So should I stop whining and get myself back to the DZ? Or cool it for a week or two, just to be safe?

Who told you to be a hero with pain?

I am grounded since months b/c of my left knee - thanks to a sh*tty landing with bent knees

Get over it and take your time to heal, superman.

Wounded knees are painful and need attention, dude. And time!

Listen to your own body.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[airtwardo 6]

So should I stop whining and get myself back to the DZ? Or cool it for a week or two, just to be safe?

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Yes.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[UliToo 0]

It will heal faster if you take a rest and don't keep subjecting it to trauma. And I'm not just saying that cause I have to sit on the sidelines for a couple weeks.

[rss_v 0]

Why would you even consider the "keep re-injuring it" option? That just wouldn't be even remotely acceptable to me. You're (presumably) not even in a competitive sport with some great reason to trash yourself and turn temporary injuries (if there is such a thing) into permanent ones.

If it's cool and tough to intentionally compound injuries, why not just stove in downwind with no flare next time, then you'll be even more awesome!

Injuries: FUCK YEA!

[pchapman 261]

It isn't uncommon for us skydivers to push things a little but unless you really need to jump, give your body a rest. So unless you got invited to some very special skydiving event, or are terminally ill, take a rest!

Everyone varies in fitness level, but think about how tough a landing one can take when one is well, compared to how easy it is to keep tweaking and causing pain in an already weak ankle, muscle, or tendon. Giving your legs more time to heal can dramatically increase their capability.

And for god's sake learn how to flare.
I know, it's easy to say.
There are all sorts of possible things to try: Spend a weekend at the DZ watching people land (especially those at similar wing loadings to you). Find someone who can watch & video your landings. Even take along a student radio and get flare assistance from the ground. Get some help. There has to be some identifiable reason or trend to your bad landings.

While falling over or thumping in a little can happen, actually hitting hard enough to not be fully healed by the next weekend is really bad. Are you reaching out for the landing? Is it a matter of tripping on landing? Bad perception of distance & speed? Doing a good multistage flare? (which can sort of still apply even at pretty low wing loadings) Are the landings really that bad that you should be feet together and ready to roll every time, just in case? PLF's can absorb some pretty bad landings.

[Namowal 0]

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And for god's sake learn how to flare.
I know, it's easy to say.
There are all sorts of possible things to try: Spend a weekend at the DZ watching people land (especially those at similar wing loadings to you). Find someone who can watch & video your landings. Even take along a student radio and get flare assistance from the ground. Get some help. There has to be some identifiable reason or trend to your bad landings.

While falling over or thumping in a little can happen, actually hitting hard enough to not be fully healed by the next weekend is really bad. Are you reaching out for the landing? Is it a matter of tripping on landing? Bad perception of distance & speed? Doing a good multistage flare? (which can sort of still apply even at pretty low wing loadings) Are the landings really that bad that you should be feet together and ready to roll every time, just in case? PLF's can absorb some pretty bad landings.

Good questions. The poor landings really annoy me because I've tried so hard to do everything right. I took the DZ canopy course (where luckily or unluckily I happened to land ok when I was being taped!) I dedicate part of my canopy time to practice flares and exercises. Yet I'm still doing some plow jobs.
That being said, here's some things I've noticed:

1. I land fine if there's a breeze. Bad landings happen when there's no wind. Even if I flare when I'm supposed to, I'm still going rather fast and tend to fall forward (or sideways, if I time the PLF correctly). More than one coach suggested that the canopy I'm renting may be too big- it's a 210 and I don't weigh that much. They think too much forward speed may be a problem and say I should try a 190. I realize this is a departure from the usual "Don't downsize until you've mastered your current size" advice.

2. Some of my earlier bad landings were compounded by flaring too high. I'm getting better at not doing this.

3.My worst landing (the one that started the problem) was when I told myself "This time you're not going to flare so soon! I don't care how close the ground looks." Guess who flared too low and banged up her leg? D'oh!

If I don't get my landing act together soon, I'm coughing up some money to get them taped and critiqued, as you suggested.

My blog with the skydiving duck cartoons.

[5.samadhi 0]

why not fly a manta 288 and have fun freefalling for awhile until your knee heals up.

you know your rig doesnt weigh anything in freefall!

[skybytch 259]

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Even if I flare when I'm supposed to, I'm still going rather fast and tend to fall forward (or sideways, if I time the PLF correctly).

Falling forward sometimes means you are putting your feet down before the parachute is done flying. Be ready to take a few steps when you land, but keep your feet inside the vehicle until the ride has come to a complete stop.

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If I don't get my landing act together soon, I'm coughing up some money to get them taped and critiqued, as you suggested.

Don't wait. Although I'd hope you could find someone to video and critique a few of your landings for the price of a beer or two...

To the original question - be a wimp. Skydiving is way more fun if you aren't worried about protecting an injury.

[pchapman 261]

So it sounds like the height of the flare is starting to get worked out.

Low wind days are naturally tougher with more forward speed to deal with. But at a light wing loading one should be able to bleed off almost all speed with a good, full flare. So I'm wondering if the flare isn't being finished off fully, or the flare is slow and the canopy slowly runs out of energy that can be converted into a good flare. But a slow flare tends to leave one with vertical speed, and that may not be your issue.

A really light wing loading canopy can normally be slowed right down, because it starts out slow, and has a really low stall speed. So it should be easy to flare to a slow speed. The problem can be is that at a really light loading, there's little energy in the flare to get you swung out forwards to get the canopy in the right place for the (very brief) plane out. So the flare has to be really sharp, hard, low, and precise. (Compared to other modern canopies at higher loading.)

That's a reason why downsizing from a super light wing loading can help. Girls get that sometimes -- going down a size from a big student canopy actually gets them better landings. A little more energy in the system allows more swing forward, and more time to adjust and finish the flare as desired.

Hard to tell though if that would help you or not. With the 210 you should be able to slow down a lot for landing even in low winds (even if the timing is tricky) which isn't what you reported.

So you may need to get others to help you see if
a) your flare isn't being finished off properly on low wind days (in which case, stay on the 210 and work on fully completing flares)
or
b) your flare arm movements are good but the canopy is so sluggish that it is hard to get the timing right (in which case a down size might actually help).

Edit:
Skybytch is right about the legs. Except for high performance slide landings, legs normally contact the ground only when the canopy is fully flared, slowed down as much as possible, and about to start dropping again.

Putting legs down early tends to focus the mind on the legs, leading to forgetting to finish the flare with the arms. As soon as the legs start to move, arms are seen doing things they should not be doing!

[skymama 35]

I'm no canopy coach, but I have had my share of bad landings. One thing that has messed me is looking down instead of out. I have to remind myself to keep my chin up the last 15 feel or so because I'm sometimes too focused on where I'm going to land instead of using my peripheral vision to guide me.

Also, are you for certain that you're finishing your flare all the way? Not doing that messes a lot of people up too. Also know that you are quite normal with your problem landings and it especially seems common with women.

As for jumping while you're not healed all the way, quit it. It's not like you're earning a living with skydiving and need to get back in the air to put food on the table. Give your body time to heal.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

I'd sit down for a weekend or two to let the knee heal completely if it was me. I've done it in the past. It sucks to be on the ground, almost good enough to jump, but it sucks worse to repeatedly reinjure something. And joint injuries are the worst for that sort of thing.

And it shouldn't cost much to get landings videod. Find someone else who wants it and take turns videoing each other. Obviously, clear it with the DZ and landing area people to make sure you are not creating a hazard, but as jumpers, you should be able to understand how to do it safely.

Then find an instructor (preferrably a canopy coach) and bring beer (and if you team up with another person wanting help, it cuts the beer cost in half ).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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If I don't get my landing act together soon, I'm coughing up some money to get them taped and critiqued, as you suggested.

This is what sucks about the sport today. If no one will help you for free find a new place to jump.

[DocPop 1]

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More than one coach suggested that the canopy I'm renting may be too big- it's a 210 and I don't weigh that much. They think too much forward speed may be a problem and say I should try a 190.

I disagree with this advice. You will be loading a 190 higher and therefore your speed will be higher. In general terms, the smaller a canopy gets (and therefore the more you load it) the less forgiving it gets.

I suggest either jumping a bigger canopy in low winds, or avoiding very low wind days until you master landings with a head wind.

Also, get video of your landings - I am suspicious that you may not be finishing the flare all the way, but it's impossible for me to know from here!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[cocheese 0]

Laughter is the best medicine.
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=aflac+commercials+youtube&tnr=21&vid=4928673215938605&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D492867321

[zerospinskier 1]

Do you really think its a good idea to ask an internet forum for medical advice?? If you hurt yourself, its not a skydiving topic. Go to the doctor if you think it requires medical attention. Only you can make that decision.

[cocheese 0]

Some rental canopies just plain suck for landing. Switching gear all the time will turn you into a "test" jumper. You learn to fly whatever you have on your back, the best you can, by doing everything you know.

Will you learn this way? Yes
Will it take longer? Maybe, but you will be more well rounded with your abilities. So renting a lot of gear isn't bad, but it may be time to find your very own stuff.

Keep watching everyone land and see what they could have done to improve their landings. Most don't finish the flare. Time your landings so your flare is finished just before you touch the ground.

The perfect landing is a controlled stall/crash just before touch down. The speed of the flare is all up to you to decide on each jump. Sometimes lifting the legs and adding all the flare you have is the ticket. Sometime this will make you pop up too high.

Being timid on landing will get you hurt. Be confident and smart.

[ShcShc11 0]

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Several weeks back I banged up my knee and ankle in a sloppy landing. Nothing serious- mind you, just some swelling, bruising, stiffness. No pain that Advil can't tackle. Nothing's broken or sprained.

However, ever since it happened- I'm seeing a pattern. By the end of the week, said leg is still a bit sensitive but more or less normal. Then I go to the DZ, have a klutzy landing (I usually have at least one), and I'm back with a fat knee, fat ankle, and a cranky limpy leg.

Part of me thinks "You're just making it worse. Take some time off and let it heal."
The other part of me thinks "So? You can stand on it. You can walk. Fellow jumpers have smashed their bones to pieces and you're worried about this? Wimp! Get out there and jump!"

So should I stop whining and get myself back to the DZ? Or cool it for a week or two, just to be safe?

I can't comment on how to flare well...
but it does seem like you have a bit too much internal fighting with yourself.

The question of whether to keep jumping or not with the injury should be based on:
"What are the risks of me getting injured more and am I willing to take that risk/consequence?"

instead of:
"Am I being a wimp for not jumping"
(which translates to: I think I'l feel like shit if I don't jump because I've seen others do it so I TOO should be able to")

Very often, the more you try to compare yourself with others, the more destructive it can be because you keep saying to yourself: "why the fuck am I not good as them? I've put X amount of work and effort and I'm still not half as good as them!" (which wrongly leads to self-blame)

And it makes it harder to enjoy the process of getting better because you constantly put more pressure on yourself.



Maybe I'm off with the psychology, maybe I'm completely right, but just my 2 cents :)
Shc

[Namowal 0]

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Laughter is the best medicine.
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=aflac+commercials+youtube&tnr=21&vid=4928673215938605&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D492867321

That's cute.
Sadly, my dancing ability is right up there with my landing ability when there's not much wind..

My blog with the skydiving duck cartoons.

[Namowal 0]

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[
Very often, the more you try to compare yourself with others, the more destructive it can be because you keep saying to yourself: "why the fuck am I not good as them? I've put X amount of work and effort and I'm still not half as good as them!" (which wrongly leads to self-blame)

And it makes it harder to enjoy the process of getting better because you constantly put more pressure on yourself.

Good point. Sometimes it's like part of my brain is a bratty five-year-old, throwing a fit because other people are better than me (with less time and practice) and that's not fair. Waah.

I need to remember that this attitude is about as helpful now as it was when I was in preschool. Nothing good will come of it.

My blog with the skydiving duck cartoons.

[popsjumper 2]

- What ShcShc11 said.

- Sit down and heal the problem.

- Learn to PLF properly.


PS: Downsizing may or may not be helpful. Smaller equates to faster. But OTOH, the make and model of the 210 may be the problem. Some canopies\ flare better than others in the same conditions. Just don't think that a downsize is a panacea....it never is.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[EOCS 0]

Im a noob and a half myself but there was someone at our DZ that had the same issue for a while and it did come down to that she was not draining all the energy out of the canopy before starting to touchdown and take those last steps. She was afraid it would stall.

But i can say with some experience from motocross riding that if you bang up a joint leave it heal for longer then you think you should, the injury can still be on the inside where you cant tell.

Also from your cartoons your DZ seems to have really sneaky winds. maybe they are just out to get you.

Good Luck!

[peregrinerose 0]

Well, you can still be at the DZ with a bum leg. I had surgery on my knee in early June, and am grounded til November or so, but still go to the DZ regularly. You can learn a lot just by hanging out on the ground, and be helpful as a gopher.

Give it a couple of weeks, and if not better, get an MRI. Joints are complicated and soft tissue injuries are not always quick to heal.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[TommyM 3]

I believe your an Elsinore/Perris jumper right? don't forget that the very hot air temps found at those DZ's can affect your landings. Your canopy will take longer to react to inputs and not slow you down the same way in cooler weather...watch out for dust devils too! 85% of my jumps were done at these DZ's.
Maybe make a several low jumps so you can focus the entire jump on flaring and landing smoothly. I''ll bet you can easily get someone to video your landing on one of those I phone thingies.
I'd stop jumping while you body recovers and go to the DZ just to watch landings....make good landings a priority

BS Tom

[tmccann 1]

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If I don't get my landing act together soon, I'm coughing up some money to get them taped and critiqued, as you suggested.

When you jump with Excel, I'd ask the coaches (no worries, back-in-the-day folks, Excel is free) to take a look at your landings. They may not be canopy coaches, but an outside perspective with some experience behind it isn't likely to hurt.

Otherwise, chill out and heal up, the sky will still be there when you're perfectly healthy.

T