chuckakers 370 #1 April 15, 2012 Watched a load come in yesterday in 20 mph winds. One guy is heading downwind over a perfectly landable area of the DZ, but instead of turning into the wind, he keeps coming downwind until he is too low to pull it off without renting a hospital bed or purchasing a cemetery plot. He twitched a toggle like he was getting ready to make the turn, then went for the down-winder instead. So we all watch as Dr. Dumbass attempts a buttslide at 40 mph, catches a foot in some high grass, flips forward, and faceplants. Fortunately he gets up uninjured. As he walks past us to go into the packing area, he gets a sarcastic golf clap from the dozen or so of us, including several staffers. That’s when I recognize him as a not-so experienced jumper who is relatively new on the DZ. Conversation follows… Me: Hey man, what canopy you jumping? Him: Velocity 111. Me: How much you weigh? Him: 190. Me: How many jumps do you have? Him: 280. Me: You’re gonna die. I later learned that he had been jumping something bigger in the past and had showed up with this canopy unannounced. DZ management made him put it away and gave him some sound advice on smart canopy progression, training possibilities, etc. I don’t think it did any good. DZO’s, if a guy named Chad Jennings shows up on your DZ he will probably have a padded logbook by then to match his Velo.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J-S 0 #2 April 15, 2012 "I don't think it did any good" You should of slapped him in the face with his reserve handle. That's what I would expect if I decided to do something stupid, or a punch in the face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #3 April 15, 2012 QuoteWatched a load come in yesterday in 20 mph winds. One guy is heading downwind over a perfectly landable area of the DZ, but instead of turning into the wind, he keeps coming downwind until he is too low to pull it off without renting a hospital bed or purchasing a cemetery plot. He twitched a toggle like he was getting ready to make the turn, then went for the down-winder instead. So we all watch as Dr. Dumbass attempts a buttslide at 40 mph, catches a foot in some high grass, flips forward, and faceplants. Fortunately he gets up uninjured. As he walks past us to go into the packing area, he gets a sarcastic golf clap from the dozen or so of us, including several staffers. That’s when I recognize him as a not-so experienced jumper who is relatively new on the DZ. \ Conversation follows… Me: Hey man, what canopy you jumping? Him: Velocity 111. Me: How much you weigh? Him: 190. Me: How many jumps do you have? Him: 280. Me: You’re gonna die. I later learned that he had been jumping something bigger in the past and had showed up with this canopy announced. DZ management made him put it away and gave him some sound advice on smart canopy progression, training possibilities, etc. I don’t think it did any good. DZO’s, if a guy named Chad Jennings shows up on your DZ he will probably have a padded logbook by then to match his Velo. this the same guy??You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #4 April 15, 2012 QuoteQuote this the same guy?? yep.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #5 April 15, 2012 QuoteQuote this the same guy?? yep. Assuming he was involved in all these jumps (and isn't just posting other peoples' vids), then he's shown quite a bit of interesting judgement in his <300 jumps. All on video, of course, because if you can't YouTube it, how can you be cool? http://www.youtube.com/user/skydiver918?feature=watch"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites devildog 0 #6 April 15, 2012 Bit of a tangent, but I'm always curious as to people's reactions to conversations like this. When you said, "You're gonna die." Did he just brush you off thereafter? Laugh and think you were kidding? Like I said, just curious.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdfreefly 1 #7 April 15, 2012 Good on you Chuck. I think the culture of not naming names and not calling people out publicly is a big part of our problem today. Name names, start a discussion, fix the problem. Stop talking to your friends about the assholes and start talking to the assholes. If the asshole won't listen, call them out publicly on it. Why are we more worried about hurting feelings or insulting someone than we are about saving lives? Methane Freefly - got stink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 370 #8 April 15, 2012 QuoteBit of a tangent, but I'm always curious as to people's reactions to conversations like this. When you said, "You're gonna die." Did he just brush you off thereafter? Laugh and think you were kidding? Like I said, just curious. His response was something like "Oh, I'm ok with it." Said he had made 30 jumps on it already. Said he "knew the risks". It was explained to him that the fact that he was 2:1 on a Velo at less than 300 jumps clearly meant that he either didn't understand the risks or simply didn't care. His overall attitude was that of the bulletproof type. He wasn't a smart ass or rude, just bulletproof. Acted like he had heard it all before (which he probably had) and that everyone around him just didn't understand his mad skillz.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #9 April 15, 2012 Yeah, that guy seems to have "twins" all over the sport. I talked to a fellow the same way one time. A few weeks later he was in the process of doing dumb shit so I started out the the landing area to address it and tell him not to come out tomorrow (it was the Saturday Sunset load that he was landing with). He made my prophecy come true and we put him on life flight an hour later. He made a full recovery and for the most part was humbled by it. I made a write up in the incidents forum some where about it. Public calling outs is what it will take. And DZO's putting safety first will be needed to support this. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #10 April 15, 2012 Quote That's what I would expect if I decided to do something stupid, or a punch in the face. that's idiodic - Chuck putting himself in jail would just deprive us of someone who's trying to do good In other words, if you are such a tool that you need a sock in the nose to listen, you're likely not gonna respond to that either ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #11 April 16, 2012 Quote"I don't think it did any good" You should of slapped him in the face with his reserve handle. That's what I would expect if I decided to do something stupid, or a punch in the face. And that would put you on the same level as the guy you are talking to. You are never justified touching someone else’s reserve handle. You could be the one getting his ass handed to him. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites demoknite 0 #12 April 16, 2012 Quote Good on you Chuck. I think the culture of not naming names and not calling people out publicly is a big part of our problem today. As long as they arent DZOs or part of the DZ staff, then we can call them out. amiright?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jhh166 0 #13 April 16, 2012 Sir, I dont mean to sound like a smart ass (not my intent), but if he would have tried to turn into the wind and ate a planet - would we not be saying "that dumb ass should have stuck to a down wind landing?!" Just asking, not trying to troll.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #14 April 16, 2012 Quotethis the same guy?? Thanks for posting that link, it's a fun video. I always get a kick out of newbies who jump out of the plane and then check their altimeter 2 seconds out of the door. News flash pal, you're 100 ft lower than when you jumped 2 seconds ago. It's also fun to watch the rapid-fire alti checks right down to pull altitude. I guess if you can't figure out that you have a few sconds and then pull, you could just 'lock on' to the thing and wait for your pull altitude to come up, but I'll never understand the need to look, turn it away, look again, turn it away, look again, turn it away, and then pull. Beyond that, if a simple brake fire is going to force the guy to chop and dump his reserve on his back, he has no business jumping a Velo. Of course, having 300 jumps, and lying to the DZO is aslo a good sign he might be in over his head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #15 April 16, 2012 I see what you mean Dave, but think about all the newbies on here who may read what you just posted and think its not "cool" to check their altitude, or think that doing so makes them look stupid to up jumpers. New guys need to check altitude often because they dont have the internal clock or the sight picture to tell them about where they are... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites loch1957 0 #16 April 16, 2012 ok i'm guilty of looking at altimeter way to often i bet. But on side note my landings are a lot more important than being cool in free fall, done had a hard one and it sucked. I have no intention of ever down sizing, i'm way to old to worry about the looking cool factor.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #17 April 16, 2012 Quote this the same guy?? Doesn't ANYBODY fucking arch when they cutaway anymore? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #18 April 16, 2012 QuoteI see what you mean Dave, but think about all the newbies on here who may read what you just posted and think its not "cool" to check their altitude, or think that doing so makes them look stupid to up jumpers. New guys need to check altitude often because they dont have the internal clock or the sight picture to tell them about where they are... Maybe they should go up and do some 10 second delays with no altimeter. That's how I was trained as a student. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #19 April 16, 2012 Quote Sir, I dont mean to sound like a smart ass (not my intent), but if he would have tried to turn into the wind and ate a planet - would we not be saying "that dumb ass should have stuck to a down wind landing?!" No, he did the right thing in that situation - landing downwind.It's that he's jumping such an expert canopy and wingloading, yet getting himself into that situation. He's got NO business jumping that canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #20 April 16, 2012 Quote Quote this the same guy?? Doesn't ANYBODY fucking arch when they cutaway anymore? John, They don't arch in freefall anymore. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #21 April 16, 2012 Quote Quote Quote this the same guy?? Doesn't ANYBODY fucking arch when they cutaway anymore? John, They don't arch in freefall anymore. Sparky I do and it's fucking up my headdown Gotta stop doing itYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #22 April 16, 2012 QuoteI see what you mean Dave, but think about all the newbies on here who may read what you just posted and think its not "cool" to check their altitude, or think that doing so makes them look stupid to up jumpers. New guys need to check altitude often because they dont have the internal clock or the sight picture to tell them about where they are... THIS! ^ I am very surprised to see that...especially coming from Dave. Young jumpers: You are doing the right thing and please continue to do it. Knowing your altitude at all times is extremely, and I mean ultimately extremely important. You are taught to check your altitude every 3-5 seconds and after every maneuver. Stick with it. As an instructor, I can tell you that one of the things that makes us really, really happy is seeing young jumpers checking their altitude. THAT is what's cool. To add: Checking your alti 2 seconds out the door is a good thing. It helps you learn about just how much altitude you lose in those two seconds....it's a good thing to know when you do hop 'n pops and especially so when you will face an emergency bailout at a low altitude. That info is going to help you determine a reasonable threshold for bailing out on your main or bailing out on your reserve in an emergency. Knowing your altitude at all times is not only COOL, it's life saving.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 370 #23 April 16, 2012 QuoteSir, I dont mean to sound like a smart ass (not my intent), but if he would have tried to turn into the wind and ate a planet - would we not be saying "that dumb ass should have stuck to a down wind landing?!" Just asking, not trying to troll.. Of course I would, however please re-read my initial post where I said that he had time to make the turn over the landing area BEFORE getting too low to pull it off. And between the time he could have turned and the time it was too low, there was quite a bit of time that he could have made a braking turn, except he didn't have the skills to do that either.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites trigger 0 #24 April 16, 2012 It always amazes me how many of the mad skillz brigade don't even have the basic/essential skills squared away. I'm talking flat turns/shuffle turns etc and a competent level of accuracy here. ***king Darwins.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #25 April 16, 2012 QuoteI see what you mean Dave, but think about all the newbies on here who may read what you just posted and think its not "cool" to check their altitude, or think that doing so makes them look stupid to up jumpers. New guys need to check altitude often because they dont have the internal clock or the sight picture to tell them about where they are... There's a difference between a newbie, and a guy with 300 jumps who thinks himself to be experienced enough to jumjp a Velo. If the guy wants to put himself out there as an 'expert', he should perform like one or expect to have it pointed out. The other thing to keep in mind is that the jump in question is a hop n pop. Not much of an internal clock needed there, just count to 10 or do one back loop or fron loop and dump. The point is not that he checks his alititude, there's niothing wrong with that, it's when he checks it that illustrates the lack of thought he's put into his jump. Right of out of the door? What's the point in checking it there? It's not going to be much different than it was 2 seconds prior. Ditto on the bottom end, it just doesn't make sense the way he looks, turns it away, looks again, turn it away, etc. What are the chances there is any meanignful change between those glances? Putting on your seatbelt is a good idea. Putting it on when you go out to your car to grab something from the glove box it stupid. Putting it on, taking it off, and putting it back on again several times before putting the car in gear is also stupid. The seatbelt is a tool, use it for it's intended purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 1 of 10 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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NWFlyer 2 #5 April 15, 2012 QuoteQuote this the same guy?? yep. Assuming he was involved in all these jumps (and isn't just posting other peoples' vids), then he's shown quite a bit of interesting judgement in his <300 jumps. All on video, of course, because if you can't YouTube it, how can you be cool? http://www.youtube.com/user/skydiver918?feature=watch"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #6 April 15, 2012 Bit of a tangent, but I'm always curious as to people's reactions to conversations like this. When you said, "You're gonna die." Did he just brush you off thereafter? Laugh and think you were kidding? Like I said, just curious.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdfreefly 1 #7 April 15, 2012 Good on you Chuck. I think the culture of not naming names and not calling people out publicly is a big part of our problem today. Name names, start a discussion, fix the problem. Stop talking to your friends about the assholes and start talking to the assholes. If the asshole won't listen, call them out publicly on it. Why are we more worried about hurting feelings or insulting someone than we are about saving lives? Methane Freefly - got stink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #8 April 15, 2012 QuoteBit of a tangent, but I'm always curious as to people's reactions to conversations like this. When you said, "You're gonna die." Did he just brush you off thereafter? Laugh and think you were kidding? Like I said, just curious. His response was something like "Oh, I'm ok with it." Said he had made 30 jumps on it already. Said he "knew the risks". It was explained to him that the fact that he was 2:1 on a Velo at less than 300 jumps clearly meant that he either didn't understand the risks or simply didn't care. His overall attitude was that of the bulletproof type. He wasn't a smart ass or rude, just bulletproof. Acted like he had heard it all before (which he probably had) and that everyone around him just didn't understand his mad skillz.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #9 April 15, 2012 Yeah, that guy seems to have "twins" all over the sport. I talked to a fellow the same way one time. A few weeks later he was in the process of doing dumb shit so I started out the the landing area to address it and tell him not to come out tomorrow (it was the Saturday Sunset load that he was landing with). He made my prophecy come true and we put him on life flight an hour later. He made a full recovery and for the most part was humbled by it. I made a write up in the incidents forum some where about it. Public calling outs is what it will take. And DZO's putting safety first will be needed to support this. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 April 15, 2012 Quote That's what I would expect if I decided to do something stupid, or a punch in the face. that's idiodic - Chuck putting himself in jail would just deprive us of someone who's trying to do good In other words, if you are such a tool that you need a sock in the nose to listen, you're likely not gonna respond to that either ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #11 April 16, 2012 Quote"I don't think it did any good" You should of slapped him in the face with his reserve handle. That's what I would expect if I decided to do something stupid, or a punch in the face. And that would put you on the same level as the guy you are talking to. You are never justified touching someone else’s reserve handle. You could be the one getting his ass handed to him. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
demoknite 0 #12 April 16, 2012 Quote Good on you Chuck. I think the culture of not naming names and not calling people out publicly is a big part of our problem today. As long as they arent DZOs or part of the DZ staff, then we can call them out. amiright?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jhh166 0 #13 April 16, 2012 Sir, I dont mean to sound like a smart ass (not my intent), but if he would have tried to turn into the wind and ate a planet - would we not be saying "that dumb ass should have stuck to a down wind landing?!" Just asking, not trying to troll.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #14 April 16, 2012 Quotethis the same guy?? Thanks for posting that link, it's a fun video. I always get a kick out of newbies who jump out of the plane and then check their altimeter 2 seconds out of the door. News flash pal, you're 100 ft lower than when you jumped 2 seconds ago. It's also fun to watch the rapid-fire alti checks right down to pull altitude. I guess if you can't figure out that you have a few sconds and then pull, you could just 'lock on' to the thing and wait for your pull altitude to come up, but I'll never understand the need to look, turn it away, look again, turn it away, look again, turn it away, and then pull. Beyond that, if a simple brake fire is going to force the guy to chop and dump his reserve on his back, he has no business jumping a Velo. Of course, having 300 jumps, and lying to the DZO is aslo a good sign he might be in over his head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #15 April 16, 2012 I see what you mean Dave, but think about all the newbies on here who may read what you just posted and think its not "cool" to check their altitude, or think that doing so makes them look stupid to up jumpers. New guys need to check altitude often because they dont have the internal clock or the sight picture to tell them about where they are... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loch1957 0 #16 April 16, 2012 ok i'm guilty of looking at altimeter way to often i bet. But on side note my landings are a lot more important than being cool in free fall, done had a hard one and it sucked. I have no intention of ever down sizing, i'm way to old to worry about the looking cool factor.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #17 April 16, 2012 Quote this the same guy?? Doesn't ANYBODY fucking arch when they cutaway anymore? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #18 April 16, 2012 QuoteI see what you mean Dave, but think about all the newbies on here who may read what you just posted and think its not "cool" to check their altitude, or think that doing so makes them look stupid to up jumpers. New guys need to check altitude often because they dont have the internal clock or the sight picture to tell them about where they are... Maybe they should go up and do some 10 second delays with no altimeter. That's how I was trained as a student. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #19 April 16, 2012 Quote Sir, I dont mean to sound like a smart ass (not my intent), but if he would have tried to turn into the wind and ate a planet - would we not be saying "that dumb ass should have stuck to a down wind landing?!" No, he did the right thing in that situation - landing downwind.It's that he's jumping such an expert canopy and wingloading, yet getting himself into that situation. He's got NO business jumping that canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #20 April 16, 2012 Quote Quote this the same guy?? Doesn't ANYBODY fucking arch when they cutaway anymore? John, They don't arch in freefall anymore. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #21 April 16, 2012 Quote Quote Quote this the same guy?? Doesn't ANYBODY fucking arch when they cutaway anymore? John, They don't arch in freefall anymore. Sparky I do and it's fucking up my headdown Gotta stop doing itYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #22 April 16, 2012 QuoteI see what you mean Dave, but think about all the newbies on here who may read what you just posted and think its not "cool" to check their altitude, or think that doing so makes them look stupid to up jumpers. New guys need to check altitude often because they dont have the internal clock or the sight picture to tell them about where they are... THIS! ^ I am very surprised to see that...especially coming from Dave. Young jumpers: You are doing the right thing and please continue to do it. Knowing your altitude at all times is extremely, and I mean ultimately extremely important. You are taught to check your altitude every 3-5 seconds and after every maneuver. Stick with it. As an instructor, I can tell you that one of the things that makes us really, really happy is seeing young jumpers checking their altitude. THAT is what's cool. To add: Checking your alti 2 seconds out the door is a good thing. It helps you learn about just how much altitude you lose in those two seconds....it's a good thing to know when you do hop 'n pops and especially so when you will face an emergency bailout at a low altitude. That info is going to help you determine a reasonable threshold for bailing out on your main or bailing out on your reserve in an emergency. Knowing your altitude at all times is not only COOL, it's life saving.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #23 April 16, 2012 QuoteSir, I dont mean to sound like a smart ass (not my intent), but if he would have tried to turn into the wind and ate a planet - would we not be saying "that dumb ass should have stuck to a down wind landing?!" Just asking, not trying to troll.. Of course I would, however please re-read my initial post where I said that he had time to make the turn over the landing area BEFORE getting too low to pull it off. And between the time he could have turned and the time it was too low, there was quite a bit of time that he could have made a braking turn, except he didn't have the skills to do that either.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #24 April 16, 2012 It always amazes me how many of the mad skillz brigade don't even have the basic/essential skills squared away. I'm talking flat turns/shuffle turns etc and a competent level of accuracy here. ***king Darwins.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #25 April 16, 2012 QuoteI see what you mean Dave, but think about all the newbies on here who may read what you just posted and think its not "cool" to check their altitude, or think that doing so makes them look stupid to up jumpers. New guys need to check altitude often because they dont have the internal clock or the sight picture to tell them about where they are... There's a difference between a newbie, and a guy with 300 jumps who thinks himself to be experienced enough to jumjp a Velo. If the guy wants to put himself out there as an 'expert', he should perform like one or expect to have it pointed out. The other thing to keep in mind is that the jump in question is a hop n pop. Not much of an internal clock needed there, just count to 10 or do one back loop or fron loop and dump. The point is not that he checks his alititude, there's niothing wrong with that, it's when he checks it that illustrates the lack of thought he's put into his jump. Right of out of the door? What's the point in checking it there? It's not going to be much different than it was 2 seconds prior. Ditto on the bottom end, it just doesn't make sense the way he looks, turns it away, looks again, turn it away, etc. What are the chances there is any meanignful change between those glances? Putting on your seatbelt is a good idea. Putting it on when you go out to your car to grab something from the glove box it stupid. Putting it on, taking it off, and putting it back on again several times before putting the car in gear is also stupid. The seatbelt is a tool, use it for it's intended purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
