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mjosparky

Something to think about.

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Something to think about when using an AAD or any other backup safety device.

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ADVISORY CIRCULAR

AC No: 105-2C

Date: 1/2/91

Initiated
by: AFS-340/820

Subject: SPORT PARACHUTE JUMPING

4. SAFETY SUGGESTIONS.

(2) Automatic Activation Devices. A jumper may have a
tendency to feel more at ease if equipped with an automatic
activation device (AAD). However, experience shows that such
devices may not be completely reliable and should be used only as
a backup to proper training and procedures.
Skydivers who use an
AAD on their reserve/auxiliary parachute should ensure that the
installation of such a device has been approved by the parachute
manufacturer or the FAA (see paragraph 8). The FAA does not
approve AAD's. They do approve the installation which is
submitted with the manufacturer's TSO paperwork. The
manufacturer's instructions for installation should be followed.
The installation of an AAD to a TSO or military specification
(MIL-SPEC)-approved parachute constitutes a major alteration to
that parachute. A jumper who uses any type of AAD should be
aware of its level of reliability and become fully proficient
with the device. A prejump check should be made for proper
setting, arming, and operational reliability to ensure proper
functioning of the AAD. When the situation requires use of the
reserve parachute, the jumper should always manually pull the
reserve/auxiliary ripcord even when using an AAD.



Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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I turn my cypress on and forget about it. I don't count on it to save my life. I'm the only one that can do that.

But good reminder for the newbies. I guess one reason I don't think about my cypress, is because when I was learning how to skydive, they didn't have these fancy things:ph34r:
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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"experience shows that such devices may not be completely reliable and should be used only as a backup to proper training and procedures."

Something here I do not understand, please bear with me…

Are there jumpers out there that rely or “depend” on their ADD? I don’t think I understand the meaning of “dependence”.
Personally, I started jumping with an ADD when I began working in skydiving because the DZ I was working at required all staff members to utilize an ADD in their equipment, until that point I jumped without one. I personally have always trained and jumped as if I did/do not have one but still turn it on whenever I jump.
Does dependence mean that jumpers will just let their ADD deploy for them whenever they cannot get their main out or after they cut away without making an attempt to deploy their reserve and just let the ADD get it? That would be like not using your brakes in your car but just let the airbag take care of everything isn’t it?
I guess the reason I am having trouble understanding is because I cannot comprehend someone not training based solely on the fact that they have an ADD. The lack of continued training amongst many skydivers after acquisition of their license astonishes me, that too is beyond my comprehension. Back in the “old days” was it uncommon for someone to display an apathetic attitude toward continued training as is commonplace nowadays?
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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I turn my cypress on and forget about it.


If you were to follow this FAA suggestion to the letter, maybe you shouldn't do that since it says:

A jumper who uses any type of AAD should be
aware of its level of reliability and become fully proficient with the device.


The mere working of the device (which has been called 'myopic' by others) ought to influence your decisions. For that to happen, you have to be aware that it is there during the 'parachute opening stage' of the skydive.

Example?
In the "dark ages" (when the setup was AAD-less) I regularly took tandems down to 3500ft. Nowadays I don't do that anymore... Although I prefer two parachutes over zero parachutes anytime when I'm landing, I've found out that ONE good and functional parachute is on the top of my list....

AND - those of us who are into taking a highly loaded main in a steep dive through AAD land should also be fully aware what is on their back...

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I don't count on it to save my life. I'm the only one that can do that



Now that IS good advice... :)
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good reminder for the newbies.



Yes - it appears that some of them read the advertisings as saying: "turn it on / hook it up and forget about your Emergency Procedures..."

Ah, Dyslexia... :S

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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You might not understand it and I know for damn sure I don't. But there are many jumpers out there that are "device dependant". They have not taken the time or effort to learn the basic about their gear and when confronted with the fact want to blame it on their FJC the DZO or the milkman. They are willing to accept responsibility for there own level of knowledge or lack of it.

Hopefully this post will get someone to re-evaluate the way they approach jumping. If I get just one to think it will be worth the time.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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I turn my cypress on and forget about it. I don't count on it to save my life. I'm the only one that can do that.



DITTO!

The thought of it being there never really crosses my mind after it's turned on;)
Anvil Brother #69

Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk...
Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix!

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I know that this is an incident where the jumper "relied on her RSL" but I think it falls into the same category as the jumper did not even touch the reserve handle...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1902970;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

...just shows that there is a tendency, however rare, to rely on these backup devices. I agree with previous posts that this comes from a lack of knowledge of the equipment and how it's meant to be used, and maybe some gaps in initial training. Standard EPs should not change because of additional backup devices such as an AAD.

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Predates the Cypres

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


THAT is a very relevant observation.



So its OK to not plan on pulling your reserve if you have a CYPRES?

That is EXACTLY what this AD is against. But you seem to think its wrong?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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There's a post a bit further down this forum called "Cypres save" which is exactly about someone who pulled her cutaway and waited for her cypres to save her. Boggles the mind.

When i did my (SL) FJC it was mentioned that we had AADs, then we spent about half the day practising EPs... I doubt any of us would have even remembered the AAD was there in the case of a mal. It was also drilled into us that once you start EPs you continue all the way to the end...
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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You might not understand it and I know for damn sure I don't. But there are many jumpers out there that are "device dependant". They have not taken the time or effort to learn the basic about their gear
Sparky



Im new and fresh out of AFF.. they didnt even tell us about the device.. or the RSL for that matter so that it wouldnt take away the impact of how important EP's are and knowing when to do them.
I think about level 4 when they started to introduce us to gear checks... then they made sure we understood the devices.
Maybe its not like that everywhere.. but I can say that was my experience

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Predates the Cypres

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


THAT is a very relevant observation.



So its OK to not plan on pulling your reserve if you have a CYPRES?

That is EXACTLY what this AD is against. But you seem to think its wrong?



You ASS-ume way too much.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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My Cypres and I are competitors. It is my goal to always win and do everything I need to manage my canopies correctly so my Cypres never gets to do anything except warm the bench.

Turning my Cypres on reminds me that solving emergencies is not optional and also reminds me not to hit my head on things like the plane or other jumpers.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

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You ASS-ume way too much.



Wow not even hiding the attacks?

You claim that the fact the AD was pre CYPRES means that it is not correct.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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He didn't claim that. He claimed it was 'relevant' but failed to elaborate on what he meant by that.



Then please tell me how it is relevant based on his stance?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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In all fairness Ron, no he did not.



Then what did he mean?

The fact the AD was Pre CYPRES does not change the AD's meaning one bit. It talks about deviced dependancy and not relying on a device to do something for you.

That STILL is an issue as other threads clearly show.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Are there jumpers out there that rely or “depend” on their ADD? I don’t think I understand the meaning of “dependence”.
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Im only a student so have no experience but I always pretend there isn't an AAD there so i focus on being responsible for all procreedures just incse it didnt work and then I would be fucked if I was dependant on it!



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Are there jumpers out there that rely or “depend” on their ADD? I don’t think I understand the meaning of “dependence”.



To answer your question, yes. This is a quote from thread on this forum.

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Details: jumper with 100+ jumps hard a hard pull went back for second attempt, again hard pull.
She them pulled the cutaway ONLY and went back to position. Cypress fired, and she landed out safely.

When asked about the dive and why she did NOT pull the reserve, she stated that she was waiting for her RSL to deploy the reserve. ????



Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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Predates the Cypres

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


THAT is a very relevant observation.



So its OK to not plan on pulling your reserve if you have a CYPRES?

That is EXACTLY what this AD is against. But you seem to think its wrong?



It's an AC, and it was prompted by experience with devices that have been obsolete for years. It's rather like applying lessons learned from accidents with buggy whips to the use of the accelerator pedal in a car. Maybe it's still valid (the advice seems fine) but because the premise on which it was based has changed we shouldn't automatically ass-ume it's still valid without further inquiry.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Im only a student so have no experience but I always pretend there isn't an AAD there so i focus on being responsible for all procreedures just incse it didnt work and then I would be fucked if I was dependant on it!



You have 10 jumps so you have some experience, but there is something I heard someone say recently that there Old skydivers and Bold skydivers but there aren’t very many Old Bold skydivers. I think the person who made the comment was implying that it is adventageous to remain teachable at any experience level.

I hear a lot of people say that they set it and forget it or pretend it isn’t there and concentrate on thier procedures and that is a good attitude in the aspect of understanding the importance of good form and practice in executing EP's but I do know more than one skydiver who fired thier Cypress by making radical performance maneuvers in the range of altitude that the Cypress fires at and ended up with two parachutes out and some have even died this way.

Good rule of thumb that I live by, train EP's like my life depends on it and no performance maneuvers below an altitude I am not willing to cutaway from (disclaimer: hey, that wasn’t a hook turn, it was a front riser carve!).

Make it a great day!
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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