kelel01 1 #51 August 17, 2004 The biggest difference I see here is that those stunts were all performed by masters of the sport in controlled circumstances, with many tests and practices done . . . not at Rantoul by a person with less than 100 jumps being a hot shot asshole. But I see your point . . . just had to invalidate it. Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #52 August 17, 2004 I've been invalidated by Kelly MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #53 August 17, 2004 QuoteI think they would have shown better judgement to land it in a less crowded area, though. Better judgement from this crew?Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #54 August 17, 2004 QuoteJust to play devils advocate. Landing a VX 39? Insane?Dangerous? Landing on the Back of a Speeding motorcycle?Stupid? Insane? Lighting your canopy on fire with a flare gun? Stupid Insane? Jumping from a Plane without a parachute Stupid? Insane? Docking and climbing into as plane from Free Fall? Stupid? Insane? Swooping down a mountain at break neck speeds? Stupid? Insane? Shall I go on? This is a Daredevil Sport.If this had been done by the folks that made the aforementioned jumps would everyone still be saying the same.... Again just playing Devils Advocate... Here's the difference. The people trying (most of) these "stunts" are highly skilled professionals, and arguably some of the best flyers/canopy pilots in the world. This was done by a 100 jump chump that thinks he's invincible (and/or is just a stupid fuck). Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #55 August 17, 2004 Is there an echo in here? Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genoyamamoto 0 #56 August 17, 2004 Quote Here's the difference. The people trying (most of) these "stunts" are highly skilled professionals, and arguably some of the best flyers/canopy pilots in the world. This was done by a 100 jump chump that thinks he's invincible (and/or is just a stupid fuck). Yep, "he may very well be the stupidest person on the face of the Earth". At first I thought maybe this guy just didn't/doesn't realize how he's stacking the odds against himself, but i've seen him disregard advice and offers from people to teach him how to be a badass safely. Instead he's chosen a mentor, someone with much more time in the sport who encourages and facilitates his desires to become a "factor". I find myself flip-flopping from blaming his mentor for being such a fuckhead for mentoring him to blaming the kid himself for being such a fuckhead. All I know is i'm staying off any loads that he's on, and i'd encourage others to do the same. He's chosen the do-stupid-stuff-until-i-hurt-myself path. I hope whatever lesson he learns is a cheap one... Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genoyamamoto 0 #57 August 17, 2004 QuoteIs there an echo in here? Kelly Is there an echo in here? Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #58 August 17, 2004 QuoteI hope whatever lesson he learns is a cheap one... Uh huh...If he's going to "buy the farm", I hope he pays in full instead of becoming a burden on society for the rest of his and our lives. Is that cold? Sorry... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genoyamamoto 0 #59 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteI hope whatever lesson he learns is a cheap one... Uh huh...If he's going to "buy the farm", I hope he pays in full instead of becoming a burden on society for the rest of his and our lives. Is that cold? Sorry... The actions/advice of people will not be able to change his attitude, that I am certain of. But if a kid like that can scare himself back to reality and not cripple/kill himself, i'd take that option any day. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 1 #61 August 17, 2004 QuoteAgain just playing Devils Advocate... So your saying this stunt is ok if QuoteThe people trying (most of) these "stunts" are highly skilled professionals, and arguably some of the best flyers/canopy pilots in the world So who decides when your good enough to try one of these stunts? Is there a committee? Is there a "Stupid human Tricks" Test you have to take? Obviously they where good enough to do this stunt since they pulled it off. ***IMPORTANT***AGAIN Playing Devils Advocate! Lots of folks have done "STUPID SHIT"since they where the "COOL PEOPLE" it is ok. Hell pushing a car out of an airplane with a bunch of people in it is the stupidest thing I could ever imagine doing yet one of the coolest things ever done if you ask around a bit..... The first dozen or more post in this thread was attacking the stunt long before anyone said it was doen by someone with 100 jumps. So is it that they have 100 jumps or is it the stunt that is beign attacked? MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #62 August 17, 2004 Personally, my initial reaction was based on the fact that it seemed to lack planning from several people, and it also occurred at the busiest (temporary) dropzone in the country. Luigi Cani didn't land his VX 39 surrounded by 50 other people doing a big way jump. Then to find out that one of them only had around 100 jumps . . . it was just an additional factor to make me think, "Holy shit, what a dumbass!". All of the other stunts were planned (more than likely) extremely painstakingly, and to choose to do this at the busiest place you could ever find doesn't show much foresight or intelligence. And maybe they're not "good enough to pull it off" so much as they are "lucky as hell". Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #63 August 17, 2004 QuoteI said "Dude, you could die." He replied "I want to die!" Maybe we could set up a network for people who want to die, and serial killers who just can't help but kill people. That way, no one really loses and we keep things under control. They could have, "Kill Me Farms" or something.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #64 August 17, 2004 Quote I have about 1/8 the number of jumps you do and I can see so many reasons why this is not a good idea! There are people here with thousands of jumps saying its not a good idea, but you still want to try it - if you trust the other jumper? I'd add "with a little more experience", in light of more recent posts... I didn't mean I was prepared to do it today... but yeah... I'd try something like that. QuoteI hope I dont have to read about you in the incidents forum after you get to 100' AGL and lose your grip. Me too! Ever hear of free climbing? Any free climbers on this board wanna chime in and say how stupid the stunt was? Please! Both jumpers have rigs. The use of the passengers rig becomes null and void when? At about a thousand feet? Then his/her job is to "not lose your grip"... Scary yes, stupid though? My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #65 August 17, 2004 QuoteIs there an echo in here? Kelly Hey, you'er ripping off my line. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #66 August 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteI said "Dude, you could die." He replied "I want to die!" Maybe we could set up a network for people who want to die, and serial killers who just can't help but kill people. That way, no one really loses and we keep things under control. They could have, "Kill Me Farms" or something. It's all about bringing people together in the 21st Century. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #67 August 18, 2004 Quote So your saying this stunt is ok if QuoteThe people trying (most of) these "stunts" are highly skilled professionals, and arguably some of the best flyers/canopy pilots in the world So who decides when your good enough to try one of these stunts? Is there a committee? Is there a "Stupid human Tricks" Test you have to take? When I first saw the postings about Cani landing a 39ft canopy I thought - what kind of stupid stunt is it to keep lowering the size bar? Some record categories should be retired. But reading the details of the numbers of test flights with cutaways before he tried it - and you have the answer to the distinction. By the time he made the landing try, the outcome was pretty certain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #68 August 18, 2004 QuoteSo who decides when your good enough to try one of these stunts? Is there a committee? Is there a "Stupid human Tricks" Test you have to take? It is called common sense. And I would say they flunked the test. QuoteObviously they where good enough to do this stunt since they pulled it off. Luck will only go so far. If they had landed in a field off away from people I would say big deal, stupid but no big deal. These clowns landed in a congested area and put other people in danger. Read the incident reports for the last few years, "pulling it off" once does not mean they were "good enough". It means they were lucky. Just a guess, but Darwin will probably get them in the end.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LivingLegend 0 #69 August 18, 2004 More devil's advocate Years ago they would have looked at an AFF program, solo after 7 jumps and said CRAZY!! I still think its risky now. And why arent you allowed to be good unless youve done 1000 jumps ? There is always the exception to the rule in any sport, someone with a natural talent comes thru and takes the world by storm. NB Its not me !!!! ________________________________________ 1.618 ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #70 August 18, 2004 QuoteAnd why arent you allowed to be good unless youve done 1000 jumps ? Because you aren't.... you're just not good enough to know it yet! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #71 August 18, 2004 QuoteLuck will only go so far. If they had landed in a field off away from people I would say big deal, stupid but no big deal. These clowns landed in a congested area and put other people in danger. But that's what this is all about, isn't it? The fact that they chose to do this in a congested area was daft! Other crazy stuff that has been pulled (pushing the boundaries if you like), such as pushing a car out of the rear of the plane, was done in the middle of the desert and without on-lookers to get hurt (potentially). I get the impression that people are only bothered/offended if they feel their own safety levels have been compromised by someone else, and outside their own remit of control. Certainly I do. -- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #72 August 18, 2004 QuoteMore devil's advocate Years ago they would have looked at an AFF program, solo after 7 jumps and said CRAZY!! I still think its risky now. Progression to AFF had a practical purpose. Bringing two people to the ground under one parachute did also. That’s called Tandem parachuting. Tandem has been researched, developed, and thoroughly tested over decades now. What practical purpose is there to standing on someone’s shoulders, unattached, and holding onto their suspension lines all the way to the ground? I guess I’m just saying I don’t think that’s a good comparison to AFF development and hence a justification. QuoteAnd why arent you allowed to be good unless youve done 1000 jumps ? There is always the exception to the rule in any sport, someone with a natural talent comes thru and takes the world by storm. NB Its not me !!!! There are varying degrees of what level of expertise you have based on the numbers of jumps that you’ve obtained. Sometimes, it has more to do with your proficiency rather than your number of jumps. However, as a general rule, the number of jumps is a good measure for broad categorization of what should and should not be attempted. That’s not to say that you’ve got to have 1000 + jumps in order to be good. That’s just saying that you should use the “number of jumps” measure as a tool combined with common sense in order to make those decisions. Moral of the story = “Don’t be stupid.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #73 August 18, 2004 I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the other things you're referring to (dropping cars in the desert, etc) were planned. They probably had more than a few days (hours) planning that went into them to make sure all bases would be covered to make sure no one got hurt. All paperwork (if needed) was filed, permissions to do (drop, whatever) were obtained, contingencies in place, prior to doing the stunt. This stunt did not look like it had any planning whatsoever and the parties involved had a reckless regard for the safetly of those around them. The difference between the two? Planning.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #74 August 18, 2004 QuoteThe difference between the two? Planning. Well...lack of planning + lack of experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Staso 0 #75 August 18, 2004 QuoteSo where's the video? yes, stop arguing ! where it the video ??? -- it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ... Speed Skydiving Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
