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dreamtoy

green light does not mean GO!

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The experienced freeflyers and wingsuiters are usually the ones doing the hollering. They should know better...but most of the loud ones probably went straight from A-license to freeflying, and then to wingsuiting, thus never having to sit next to the door when the pilot turns on the green light a long ways out.


I don't think I agree about wingsuiters. Why should they care where the RW and FF folks exit.


They must be piss poor wingsuiters. As a wingsuiter, the "spot" will still be good even if everyone takes a little extra time in the door ... heck, I encourage people to take extra time in the door so I can get some more distance to work with.


So why would they shout "Go go go"? I think you agree with me and misread what I wrote.



I think you misread what I wrote since I didn't agree or disagree with you. I just stated that if a wingsuiter is rushing people in the door then they are probably a piss poor wingsuiter ...
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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The experienced freeflyers and wingsuiters are usually the ones doing the hollering. They should know better...but most of the loud ones probably went straight from A-license to freeflying, and then to wingsuiting, thus never having to sit next to the door when the pilot turns on the green light a long ways out.


I don't think I agree about wingsuiters. Why should they care where the RW and FF folks exit.



They must be piss poor wingsuiters. As a wingsuiter, the "spot" will still be good even if everyone takes a little extra time in the door ... heck, I encourage people to take extra time in the door so I can get some more distance to work with.


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So why would they shout "Go go go"?


Because "They must be piss poor wingsuiters".

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I think you agree with me and misread what I wrote.


You didn't grasp what HE wrote.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Might sound a little silly,but I personally "start" spotting after take off (and obviously on jump run). I mentally keep track of where the dropzone is at all times during climb. Luckily we have a lot of good geographical markers to help accomplish this. We don't have a green light, but do get "door" from the pilot. Green light, does not mean go. Also, we talk about the spot / jump run / landing direction after almost every load.
Stearny

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Might sound a little silly,but I personally "start" spotting after take off



It isn't silly. If you're ever in an aircraft emergency, you'll really enjoy knowing where you are as you get out (since you will likely not be over the spot/DZ).

At my home DZ before the DZ closed, sitting in the 182 I could tell where we were by look out the window with out looking down. Then again, I had spent hundreds of hours sitting on the floor of a 182 doing a couple thousand jumps there.

At other DZs I often found myself by the door of the Otter to do a swoop load. So I would pay attention to where we were out of the clear lexan door as we climbed. Since I liked to be ready early and then go through the swoop visualization for the jump before opening the door.

If you're paying attention you can notice other air traffic in the area during the climb to altitude. In smaller planes, like a 182, you have a chance to talk to the pilot about air traffic as well.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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green light does not mean GO!

what does it mean then ?



It only means that the a/c is configured for exit. :P



Actually it means whatever the Pilot in Command says it means. If the PIC says it means exit the plane NOW, then that's what it means.




Calling bull on that one Kallend. No pilot worth his salt wants you to risk his license or his job. Being an SDC jumper you should know when Dave or any other pilot at SDC turns on the green it means, plane and pilot are ready and this is where THEY THINK you should get out.



Please re-read what I wrote. I didn't claim that SDC pilots tell you to go on green.

Simply pointed out that the PIC is the ultimate authority for what goes on in the plane and if she instructs you to exit by whatever means (including lights), then that's what you should do.



The only time I would ever get out of a plane without looking for traffic, clouds, or location is during an emergency. Even then I would like to believe I would look down to see how F***ed I really am :P

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The only time I would ever get out of a plane without looking for traffic, clouds, or location is during an emergency. Even then I would like to believe I would look down to see how F***ed I really am :P



Really? When I'm late diver out of the Skyvan on a bigway I don't generally stop on the tailgate and look out for traffic and clouds before exiting. Can't say I've ever seen any other late diver do that, either.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Might sound a little silly,but I personally "start" spotting after take off.


[:/]
If you started spotting after take-off, you are already behind the 8-ball. You would have no clue what the winds are doing and how much freefall drift nor canopy drift you will have.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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green light does not mean GO!

what does it mean then ?



It only means that the a/c is configured for exit. :P



Actually it means whatever the Pilot in Command says it means. If the PIC says it means exit the plane NOW, then that's what it means.



I agree with this up to a point....the problem is that it relieves the jumper of responsibility for himself. When something bad happens, you can bet your butt that the PIC is going to use that in defense....."You are responsible for your own self."
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Green light doesn't mean GO at all. Somebody should always have a look to validate the spot, but pressure from people jumping after you or your formation, like tandem or else makes the situation sometimes quite difficult.

1) Florida DZ 2008 : red light, load organizer checking but pressure from the following jumpers and GO. Results : 5 out of a 10 way landing in the forest. My third jump with a Katana and having to do accuracy in order to land in a small glade + half an hour to get out of the forest.

2) Illinois big Boogie 2007 : A 30 way from a Casa. Green light on, nobody checked the spot. Not a good thing from that jump and...nobody could recognize the area below. Landing between the corn fields. 5 miles from the airport. Several cars and trucks giving us a lift back to the DZ. This time, I came back with 8 other people with the UPS truck.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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This thread reminds me of what happened in Empuria a few years back.

There was a skyvan brought on site for extra capasity on a busy week and through out the day the last people on the loads in this plane had been landing out.

Since almost every time someone was landing out, we asked the pilot if we could make 2 jumpruns ? The pilot immediately declined, and was unwilling to discuss the matter any further.

Later on that day one scandinavian fellow jumper landed out and was fatally injured. The next day the skyvan was suddenly flying 3 jumpruns per load. I guess the DZ realized that trying to sqeeze out the few euros of more profit/load simply wasnt worth a human life..

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Another example (my own fault) -

Nationals at Spaceland. I'm doing camera. Green light comes on and I take a look. Clear right under us but clouds all around and I didn't recognize the area. I told our team captain; he looked and gave me the thumbs-up. I assumed (foolishly) that this meant "yeah I recognize the area and we're fine."

Did the dive, opened up about 5 miles from the DZ. I got a ride back from a nice lady after she decided I wasn't a door to door salesman or some evangelical guy. Uli later said "I was just telling you I thought the hole was big enough."

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I'm a relatively new jumper. I find that I'm often at the door, and I always spot. Every single time. Going forward I'd rather set good habits, than cut corners and develop bad habits. I don't care what color the light is, or what other jumpers are screaming at me about getting out, i'll jump once i'm comfortable with the spot.

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I'm a relatively new jumper. I find that I'm often at the door, and I always spot. Every single time. Going forward I'd rather set good habits, than cut corners and develop bad habits. I don't care what color the light is, or what other jumpers are screaming at me about getting out, i'll jump once i'm comfortable with the spot.



I was on a 100 way event last month, and a bunch of 68 ways the previous month.

If each of those jumpers had spotted for themselves, the first out the door would have landed by the time the last one exited.

Your sentiment is noble, but impractical when you jump with a bunch of other people on multi-plane formations.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I'm a relatively new jumper. I find that I'm often at the door, and I always spot. Every single time. Going forward I'd rather set good habits, than cut corners and develop bad habits. I don't care what color the light is, or what other jumpers are screaming at me about getting out, i'll jump once i'm comfortable with the spot.



I was on a 100 way event last month, and a bunch of 68 ways the previous month.

If each of those jumpers had spotted for themselves, the first out the door would have landed by the time the last one exited.

Your sentiment is noble, but impractical when you jump with a bunch of other people on multi-plane formations.



Think you miss-read it ;) Or my syntax was off...When i'm the first out...I spot. that's what I was saying ;P

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2 weeks ago the uppers were honking and it was 22knots on the ground. Our 4 way was out first and the two outside the caravan climbed out very quickly. One of them spotted and off we went... Landed way downwind of the dz and non of us made it back. She was adamant the spot was good when we left the plane.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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Also worth checking what the procedure is at a new DZ. About 8 years ago I was in Oz (where I lived and jumped at the time) and two French guys turned up at the DZ. We were on the same load and they asked me for help with the Skyvan door when the buzzer sounded as they were first out but nervous of the door. Now it's worth pointing out that our procedure then was to have the door open a good 2 minutes before actual exit so you weren't rushing everything and it was regularly longer than that. I opened the door and the two guys just pinged straight out of the plane - I literally didn't have time to stop them. I looked out after them and didn't recognise any of the area we were flying over. They got lucky and were relatively near a road when they landed but it took them 2 hours to get back to the DZ where they promptly got in their car and left. This could have been much worse as Aussie bush (no sniggering) is not somewhere you want to land as it is thick, rough and contains many unpleasant creatures (again, no sniggering), so I bet these guys wish they had checked what the protocol was before they hucked it out the plane...

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

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2 weeks ago the uppers were honking and it was 22knots on the ground. Our 4 way was out first and the two outside the caravan climbed out very quickly. One of them spotted and off we went... Landed way downwind of the dz and non of us made it back. She was adamant the spot was good when we left the plane.

:D:D:D:D:D Yeah well :D:D:D:D
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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The DZ's that have a no go around policy no matter what really foster an environment for some bad decisions in the door; like one that would force a person, perhaps a new skydiver who didn't know any better, to think twice and maybe get out over traffic or whatever else is out there



Any DZ with a no 'go-around' policy has one of two problems - either their margins are too thin and they can't afford the go-around or the DZO is too greedy to allow them.

The solution for both is simple, raise the tandem prices by a buck, and the fun jump prices by .25 or .50. Continue to encourage good spotting and discourage go-arounds, but allow them if needed. I jump a DZ where we can get a go-around (or two) if needed with no questions asked. I would say that in a given month we do about 2 go-arounds due to the spot getting long. Most of the time it's based on light uppers and a string of solos or slow exting students, but whatever the case, it's something like 2 a month. So figure each one takes about 3 to 4 extra minutes of flight time, you're looking at 6 to 8 minutes a month on the plane and 6 to 8 minutes worth of fuel for the plane to fly level (not climbing) with a light load.

Now multiply that by the increase in jump prices, and the DZO would probably make money in the end. The tandems won't notice the extra dollar, and even the busiest of fun jumpers are looking at less than $100 more for the whole season.

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2 weeks ago the uppers were honking and it was 22knots on the ground. Our 4 way was out first and the two outside the caravan climbed out very quickly. One of them spotted and off we went... Landed way downwind of the dz and non of us made it back. She was adamant the spot was good when we left the plane.



:D:D
The proof is in the pudding.
:D:D
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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The only time I would ever get out of a plane without looking for traffic, clouds, or location is during an emergency. Even then I would like to believe I would look down to see how F***ed I really am :P



Really? When I'm late diver out of the Skyvan on a bigway I don't generally stop on the tailgate and look out for traffic and clouds before exiting. Can't say I've ever seen any other late diver do that, either.



in larger groups, if I see somebody I trust check I am ok with that. However If I dont see somebody check I will hesitate ever so slightly do my job of taking care of myself.

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