Gearing up before getting in (was: Tandem Fatality)

[goofyjumper 0]

I think that budge strip makes a huge difference. My friend had borrowed mine for a sit fly. I only do belly flying and did not think it was that important. I did a normal belly and on track off I felt one of my legs straps on my knee, I tightened it as fast as I could. I usually always tighten them on the plane. Even taking a risk with RW also.

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I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[Scrumpot 1]

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I usually always tighten them on the plane.

That is one of my pet peeves, and I really hate when I see this! IMHO you should be fully geared up (as a sport jumper) and "ready (FULLY CAPABLE) to exit the plane" by the time you are boarding it.

Not picking on you personally, as maybe as you seem to indicate, you yourself also learned something from this (your personal experience) as a result too?

This is not strictly germane to the incident at-hand though in this thread, so I also do not want to further distract ("hijack") it off its pertinent subject matter.

My heart and my thoughts go out to all those affected by this tragic, tragic incident.

BSBD,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[chaoskitty 0]

I jump with goofyjumper and she IS always geared up and ready to go out the door when she boards the plane. However, sitting on the floor of the plane often loosens your legstraps, and she simply checks to make sure theyre tight again before exiting. I do the same thing in my gear, particularly since I have B12's.

I've even jumped HER rig and kept the same procedures. I know you're not saying that checking for three handles and three straps before exiting is one of your pet peeves..

[kristenmichie 0]

DOUBLE checking your leg straps are tightened shouldnt be a pet peeve. On every single jump I do, I always board the plane ready to go. I sit down, and when I get up I ALWAYS re-tighten my leg straps. I've heard other people saying this was a complaint of theirs also and it bothered me then as well. Not to pick on you specifically Scrumpot, just posting from the other point of view.

We're here for a good time, not a long time.

[Scrumpot 1]

Okay, I really did not want to sidetrack this thread, but you mis-understand. As cut-n-pasted now from SEVERAL PM's (and in an effort to cut down on my blistering fingers from rebuttal typing), here is what I meant:

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Maybe this is not what goofy does, but what I was referring to are the folks who get on the plane, promptly "lounge out" with their chest straps fully loose (if connected AT ALL), their leg straps at full loose position, and then just regard the whole operation completely and totally non-chalauntly. Again, I did not think that this is necessarily what your friend does, and I definitely did not want to side-track the subject matter of that thread (thus my PM now to you instead), but what I was trying to get people to think of here were those that DO do this, and what it would be like as the plane just passes say 1,500 ft and an engine flames out.

I don't have to idley just think about this. ...I've been there! Those GOOFS (no pun intended on goofydiver) then have to try to stand up, put their chest straps on, tighten their leg straps, "dance" all around (while OBSTRUCTING THE DOOR FOR OTHERS) -and doing this all while the rest of us are trying to EMERGENCY EXIT with the pilot screaming "get out, get out, get out, ...everybody OUT *NOW*!!

Follow?

Ever seen those people?
Do you wonder? (again, I don't have to, I'VE BEEN THERE!)
Thus yes... and voila, -Pet peeve!
NOT for re-checking and adjusting your gear prior to exit, but for those who don't even (properly) put their gear ON prior to boarding.

Hope my clarification to you (all) now helps.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[NickDG 23]

No way . . .

I'm not going to sit there all cinched down for twenty minutes especially dealing with checking a student's gear and all that. I put my rig on just tight enough for a quick emergency exit, but I always cinch down before a normal exit.

I'll agree not having your chest strap threaded or your leg straps all the way loose blows for the reasons you stated.

NickD BASE 194

[billvon 2,380]

>I'm not going to sit there all cinched down for twenty minutes
>especially dealing with checking a student's gear and all that.

Ditto. You should be in a state that you can bail out of the plane once you take off, but there's no reason to have your helmet on, your legstraps tightened, your goggles on etc all the way to altitude.

[Scrumpot 1]

Agreed! ...I do the same. No way you need to be fully cinched down, but at least not be so loose (or completely disconnected as in the case of a chest strap) to the point that you could NOT exit in an emergency situation is all. ...Again, I've seen 1st hand the effects of that!

Thanks also Bill, for moving this thread to S&T where it belongs.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[bob.dino 0]

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there's no reason to have ... your legstraps tightened ... all the way to altitude

Just make sure that your legstraps are at least reasonably tight. If they're not, good luck being able to extract your pilotchute when it's up between your shoulderblades .

[Scrumpot 1]

Also, where we're on the subject of gear preparedness and (potential) emergencies...

For those of you who do NOT put on your helmets for at least take off roll and initial climb, please at least be sure they are SECURED (through your CONNECTED chest-strap is a viable option), rather than just either laying in your lap or loose in your hands! ...Those things can become nasty PROJECTILES and cause injury to OTHERS who otherwise have taken the care to be ready, even properly belted, geared up AND secured their own shit.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[apley 0]

this sounds reasonable to me, crackpipe. be prepared, however, to feel my feet on your back if you're blocking my path while trying to prepare your gear for exit!

[riggerrob 558]

It depends whether you are jumping from cramped Cessnas or roomy, luxurious Skyvans.
You might be able to adjust your harness in a Skyvan, but it is considered bad form in Cessnas.

I am too big to adjust my harness in a Cessna - so I just tighten everything before boarding.

We used to have a instructor who spent his winters at a Twin Otter DZ down south. After he repeatedly ignored our criticism of his habit of boarding Cessnas with his leg straps loose, we fired his sloppy ass!
The main reason we fired him was that he was setting a bad example for junior jumpers.

[Zoter 0]

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That is one of my pet peeves, and I really hate when I see this! IMHO you should be fully geared up (as a sport jumper) and "ready (FULLY CAPABLE) to exit the plane" by the time you are boarding it.

I agree......I was on an Otter load with a guy from Italy who on the loads we shared a ride never did anything up when he got in the plane......he was more concerned with looking good and settling back listening to his ipod....
On this load ....the pilot indicated at 7K something was not right and that we may have to exit....not an emergency...
IPOD dude didnt hear this of course.
When the pilot asked for people to lighten the load....IPOD boy panicked....jumped up pulling straps here there and everywhere.....earphones dangling around straps and such....he looked REALLY cool now I can tell you.
All I could think about was what I would do if it was a real emergency.....IPOD boy would be simply pushed behind me on my way to the door.

Not being ready to exit the plane immediately upon reaching a jumpable height endangers your own and more importantly the lifes of the people around you.
I have to say I have seen this type of complacency with gear with very experienced and instructor skydivers.......almost like its 'cool' to behave like this.
Personally I would react the same as with IPOD boy....If I need to get out and you are still struggling to tighten your straps....
dont get in my way

[Zoter 0]

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DOUBLE checking your leg straps are tightened shouldnt be a pet peeve. On every single jump I do, I always board the plane ready to go. I sit down, and when I get up I ALWAYS re-tighten my leg straps. I've heard other people saying this was a complaint of theirs also and it bothered me then as well. Not to pick on you specifically Scrumpot, just posting from the other point of view.

I think there is a big difference between adjusting leg straps vs not having them tightned at all .......at least if they are tight when you enter the aircraft and you need to exit in an emergency......you can worry about how well they are adjusted after you have exited and are safely under canopy on your way down as opposed to thinking about if you are going to live whilst holding up people in the door of the plane in an emergency

[McG 0]

I think there is something wrong with your rigs if you don't feel comfortable having them on.


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>If God meant for man to fly, He´d have given him much more money.

McG, DZ EFVA dictator

[billvon 2,380]

>Not being ready to exit the plane immediately upon reaching a jumpable
>height endangers your own and more importantly the lifes of the people
>around you.

You think that's bad? I was once on a load where a jumper jumped in with an unclosed container and proceeded to try to close the container as we climbed. And we _did_ have a problem on that load. He had fortunately just finished packing when the problem arose.

[DJL 232]

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On this load ....the pilot indicated at 7K something was not right and that we may have to exit....not an emergency...

IPOD dude didnt hear this of course.

All I could think about was what I would do if it was a real emergency.....IPOD boy would be simply pushed behind me on my way to the door.

It might have been nice of you to get his attention instead of being sanctimonious. It's a group effort and there are a lot of things on the ride up that would keep someone from hearing the pilot, whether it's a superficial distraction or being hearing impaired. I wear earplugs until jumprun and could be all the way in the back of the plane fiddling with my camera. I'd appreciate it if the word gets around.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[mdrejhon 8]

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You think that's bad? I was once on a load where a jumper jumped in with an unclosed container and proceeded to try to close the container as we climbed. And we _did_ have a problem on that load. He had fortunately just finished packing when the problem arose.

You mean he hadn't started working with the closing loop when he boarded!?

Packing the parachute on the jump plane. That's nuts

[billvon 2,380]

>You mean he hadn't started working with the closing loop when he boarded!?

Nope. Fortunately he remembered a pullup cord. He would have gotten away with it, too, if we hadn't had an emergency off-field landing.

[kelpdiver 2]

what type of plane was this in?

[billvon 2,380]

>what type of plane was this in?

A Sikorsky helicopter. It had a problem at about 1500 feet and autorotated into a field.

[BIGUN 1,049]

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For those of you who do NOT put on your helmets for at least take off roll and initial climb,

I can be somewhat of a prick when it comes to helmets on during take-off and roll and up to at least 1-1500' before removing it. My prickness was validated when a friend and former student was ejected from the plane crash while wearing her helmet. Instead of having reconstructive surgery to the right side of her face, she needed a new helmet.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Superman32 0]

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You think that's bad? I was once on a load where a jumper jumped in with an unclosed container and proceeded to try to close the container as we climbed. And we _did_ have a problem on that load. He had fortunately just finished packing when the problem arose.

That man should NEVER been allowed to enter the aircraft.
That reflects terribly on the DZ, staff and regular jumpers. To me it says they're not at all concerned about my safety, which can translate to poor AC maintenance, people invading my airspace when jumping and a total cluster fuck when it comes to landing patterns.
I definately would not be going back to that DZ despite having survived my first trip

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[Zoter 0]

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It might have been nice of you to get his attention instead of being sanctimonious.

As far as I remember the message was passed down the otter from one to the next........and as I recall I did my duty in passing the message on down the line......(IPOD boy was only within visual range)
Whilst I cant say for sure that he 'heard' the message passed to him , there was a definate lethargy in his personal response and If the person who passed the message to him didnt try 4 or 5 times waiting for a response before sorting themselves out.....cant say I blame them at all.
YOU are ultimately responsible for ensuring YOUR own safety.......if YOU choose to bypass established thinking/procedure then you are living in a very eutopian world if you expect others to go out of their way to ENSURE your safety.

Whatever....my original thought still stands ....people who act like this shouldnt delayme or my friends or get in my way when I am heading to the door in an emergency.

[billvon 2,380]

>That man should NEVER been allowed to enter the aircraft.

Ordinarily he wouldn't be. But the helicopter was loading in an unusual location, and people were walking a few hundred yards out to load it (on the apron near the hangar.) Heck, I would have gotten off the load - if we hadn't lifted off about five seconds after he jumped in the door.