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-Joey-

DZO's: Lower limit on canopy size?

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Just wanted to poll some of the DZO's and DZ staffs around here.

At what point (ie, wing loading vs jumps) would you tell a jumper, who brought their own gear, that their canopy selection is too small and they are staying on the ground? I don't mean the point at which you disagree with them and shake your head at their selection, but where you actually say no you're not jumping that here.

As someone who may be shopping for gear soon I want to be right on the line without crossing it.
Skydiving is serious business

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Just wanted to poll some of the DZO's and DZ staffs around here.

At what point (ie, wing loading vs jumps) would you tell a jumper, who brought their own gear, that their canopy selection is too small and they are staying on the ground? I don't mean the point at which you disagree with them and shake your head at their selection, but where you actually say no you're not jumping that here.

As someone who may be shopping for gear soon I want to be right on the line without crossing it.



*sigh*
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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I was thinking more along the lines of DZO's in general since I know I'll be moving in the summer but am not sure exactly where. It will either be MA (in which case I'll go to Jumptown) or Houston (in which case I'll go to Spaceland).
Skydiving is serious business

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Jump number and canopy piloting, currency, discipline, etc play a huge role in what you should buy.
Also, I saw you had a post for a thread Katana vs a crossfire2. If you're a new jumper you don't need a high performance, elliptical, or highly loaded canopy.
Here's the downsizing chart we have posted at our DZ that our staff sticks to.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

Don't be scared to buy big, canopies are replaceable, you aren't.

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I was thinking more along the lines of DZO's in general



Don't lie to us, you weren't thinking at all.

Canopy size is not related to what you can 'get away with' at a given DZ. It's related to your own skills/training/ability, and the point at which a DZO would toss you out on your ass has nothing to do with that.

If you can't see that getting anywhere near the point that a DZO would turn down your business is a terrible idea, and real threat to your health and well-being, you might want to quit while you're ahead (and still walking/breathing).

Do a search on this site for Ted Nelson and Sangi.

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As someone who may be shopping for gear soon I want to be right on the line without crossing it.



The line never sits still. Get close enough and you'll eventually cross it. Hell, there's a pretty good chance that you'll cross it even if you don't try to get close.

Fire burns. Play at your own risk.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Here's the downsizing chart we have posted at our DZ that our staff sticks to.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf


Thanks; so according to that chart I'm in the 150-160 range for square footage.

So I see you jump at Spaceland; how far do they go when it comes to laying down the law? If you're new on the DZ do they actually demand to see "your papers" in a german voice, put you on a scale and unpack your main?

Or is it just if they happen to see someone face-plant in the landing area, pull them aside later and check some stuff out?
Skydiving is serious business

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I was thinking more along the lines of DZO's in general since I know I'll be moving in the summer but am not sure exactly where. It will either be MA (in which case I'll go to Jumptown) or Houston (in which case I'll go to Spaceland).

My advice still stands. Contact any of the Farringtons, or Luke, Jeff, or John Mitchell or really almost anyone there. I jumped there when I bought my first gear.

But if you insist, contact diablopilot (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?username=diablopilot]). He's an S&TA at Spaceland.
Brian

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Just wanted to poll some of the DZO's and DZ staffs around here.

At what point (ie, wing loading vs jumps) would you tell a jumper, who brought their own gear, that their canopy selection is too small and they are staying on the ground? I don't mean the point at which you disagree with them and shake your head at their selection, but where you actually say no you're not jumping that here.

As someone who may be shopping for gear soon I want to be right on the line without crossing it.



*sigh*



http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4390858;page=unread#unread

Bigger sigh.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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In Holland they're not only DZ rules, but they're national rules. These rules are the 'do not exceed'-limit, that means you might not be ready to be on the edge of what's allowed. Don't be an idiot, staying on the conservative side can never hurt you.

http://parachute.nl/fileadmin/knvvlpa_upload/pdf/BVR_bijlage_B_versie_2011-07_juli.pdf

It basically comes down to:
I : wingload max 1,1; at least 170 sqft, can jump a student canopy
II : >25 jumps total, >10 last 12 months: wingload max 1,1; at least 170 sqft, can jump a Pilot
III : >100 jumps total, >25 last 12 months: wingload max 1,3; at least 150 sqft, can jump a Sabre2
IV : >400 jumps total, >50 last 12 months: wingload max 1,5; at least 135 sqft, can jump a Stiletto
V : >700 jumps total, >100 last 12 months: wingload max 1,7, at least 120 sqft, can jump a Katana
VI : >1000 jumps total, no restrictions

If a canopy is not listed, it's automatically classified as catVI.
"So I jump out, look up, and think 'Oh SHIT!...

It's PINK!!!'"
- army guy after his first staticline jump

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Joey -

You may think this is fun and games. You could probably even get away with jumping a high performance canopy (maybe). My concern at this point, is your attitude. The way you are approaching this whole thing is reckless.

I'd much rather see someone with less skill approach something with the right attitude, then a highly skilled athlete approach something with a poor attitude.

Its not about jump numbers. Its about attitude, experience, approach and goals. It sounds like you only have an end game without considering the path to get there. Please consider this as constructive criticism. You may be entirely different in person, but all we can go by is your reckless approach on the internet.

If you approached me at the DZ with this attitude, I wouldn't let you jump a Navigator 260.
Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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I have a better question for you, without calling you an idiot or telling you you're going to die. I'm dead serious with these questions, so I'd appreciate an answer.

1) How many jumps do you have?

2) Why do feel that you need the smallest canopy? Are you bringing skills from somewhere else?

3) What are you trying to accomplish by getting the smallest canopy possible?

4) What canopies have you jumped in the past?

So, as you saw above, there's a bunch of anal people above that don't care about you (not all of them though). They only care that you want to jump a small canopy and that's all they hear. I think I'd rather have an idea of why this thought is in your head, and then work with you to figure out what the best option for you would be. Maybe help you understand why the people above think you're crazy.

Just to be clear..I will not tell you what to buy. That's a discussion you'll need to have with your instructors, or the S&TA at the DZ you choose. I will help you understand why the people above are saying what they're saying.
"When once you have tasted flight..."

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Don't be an idiot, staying on the conservative side can never hurt you.



i have to disagree, thats the funny thing about skydiving, you can get hurt on either side ;)



Do you have an example? I honestly can't think of when having a more conservative (canopy) can be a bad thing, unless you jump in high winds and are more likely to be drug or have a bad spot, or if the canopy is so large that you don't have the strength or flare stroke length to flair it properly, or something like that. Or perhaps if you jump at a DZ with multiple aircraft and you stay in the air long enough to interfere with the next load.

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