cheap hop 'n pops -- economically efficient?

[CloudyHead 0]

Jump ticket price = $24 for 10,500 feet
or $13 for 3000ft

total jumps so far = 40

goal = to become a better skydiver overall

Is canopy experience worth significantly more than freefall experience on a "per jump" basis when it comes to progression? If it is, then making my next 50 jumps hop n pops would be economically smart. What do you guys think?

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Not by my math.

If you are wanting canopy time you are getting over 3 times as much for less than double what 2 hop & pops cost if you do a hop & pop at 10,500.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Have you done a canopy course yet? If not, I'd suggest doing one of those. That should help you have a better idea of what you're doing on your hop and pops. Our canopy instructor talked the pilot into a couple extra thousand feet (5000 instead of 3000) so we'd have a little extra time to play with the canopy before we hit the decision altitude.

Personally I enjoy flying the canopy and it's kind of nice having the whole landing area to yourself, but I'm not sure I'd want to do 50 hop'n pops all in a row. You could probably knock 10 or so out on a reasonably good day.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[BIGUN 1,048]

I'm not sure about the Canadian requirements, but is there a "Freefall Time" component if you wish to pursue Instructional ratings?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[catfishhunter 1]

I have made a ton of hop and pops. Used to make at least 2 or more each weekend but that was when it was $5 to get on the plane and $1 for every 1k. Now they want the same price :( don't make them to often now. They are a lot of fun go make a bunch and find someone not scared of opening at 2500-2200 and launch some two ways. Good times!

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[CloudyHead 0]

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Not by my math.

If you are wanting canopy time you are getting over 3 times as much for less than double what 2 hop & pops cost if you do a hop & pop at 10,500.

but is the top portion of the canopy ride worth as much a the landing portion? How much is there to really learn under canopy above 3000 ft?

[CloudyHead 0]

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Have you done a canopy course yet? If not, I'd suggest doing one of those. That should help you have a better idea of what you're doing on your hop and pops. Our canopy instructor talked the pilot into a couple extra thousand feet (5000 instead of 3000) so we'd have a little extra time to play with the canopy before we hit the decision altitude.

Personally I enjoy flying the canopy and it's kind of nice having the whole landing area to yourself, but I'm not sure I'd want to do 50 hop'n pops all in a row. You could probably knock 10 or so out on a reasonably good day.

I've never heard of canopy courses out here. :(

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Not by my math.

If you are wanting canopy time you are getting over 3 times as much for less than double what 2 hop & pops cost if you do a hop & pop at 10,500.

but is the top portion of the canopy ride worth as much a the landing portion? How much is there to really learn under canopy above 3000 ft?

I would say yes, it's all worth something, but I guess it depends on how you look at it. I believe that with very spiral, front riser turn, rear riser turn, stall.... You are learning the feel of your canopy, what it feels like coming out of a dive, what the wind noise sounds like blah blah blah.

Putting that aside. Go to the dropzone, skydive, have a good time and learn as you go. This is supposed to be fun not school.

[briangilbertson 0]

Go all the way up and pull high....get used to your canopy until it's 2nd nature....then go spend some time in the tunnel too.

[J-S 0]

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Go all the way up and pull high....get used to your canopy until it's 2nd nature....then go spend some time in the tunnel too.

if youre going to do full altitude H&Ps check with an instructor first, make sure they're not dropping a load on top of you, ask about the uppers that day (so you don't blow away), get out last, and tell the pilot of your intentions. They're fun though!

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Blah blah sims blah blah avoid maneuvers that could result in line twists below your decision altitude blah blah blah. Above that is a fun place to do canopy stalls, front riser dives, maximum speed turns, etc. If you don't have experience with those things, read the sims and talk to your instructors first.

Also blah blah sims blah blah notify the pilot and all skydivers on the load blah blah opening over 6000 feet blah blah blah. I don't recall the sims mentioning telling manifest, but also tell manifest.

It took 11 minutes to get down when I did my sunset load high pull at 11500 back in September. During the day that might hold up the operation, especially if there are two planes flying. It was pretty cool though. There was a jet coming in on the DIA approach pattern, about 40 miles off, and I could tell his altitude was lower than mine.

If your DZ will let you do a high pull every time, I'd say that's definitely more economical than hop'n pops.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[davelepka 4]

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Is canopy experience worth significantly more than freefall experience on a "per jump" basis when it comes to progression?

Progression towards what? Being a better canopy pilot? Not really, but maybe.

Not really in that full altitude jumps will provide you with a complete canopy ride to include one landing, just like a hop n pop. In that sense, they are equal in what you get out of them.

Maybe in that if time/money is your problem, and the H&Ps let you make more jumps. That does equal more canopy flights and landings, and that does help you become a better pilot.

Also maybe in that H&Ps sometimes give you more 'room' under canopy to play because there's less traffic. If you can get 5k for a H&P, you can play around without too much traffic around. However, you can also get that same experience by pulling higher on a freefalll jump, where everyone else will be lower than you and not a factor.

Overall, you do lose something by planning only H&Ps, and that's freefall experience. It's fun and friendly, and part of being a skydiver. Don't ignore it, but it's good to realize the importance of other things (like canopy piloting).

Here's the fine print - if you're planning to do anything but a regualr H&P or a freefall jump with an opening at 5k or lower, you need to consult an instructor to review your plan. Pulling much higher than 5k after a freefall jump requires some planning ahead, as does a H&P from full altitude. You run into possible conflicts with students/tandems/aircraft when pulling 'high', so it needs to be discussed and others on the load need to know your plans.

[DougH 270]

Hop and pops and full altitude clear and pulls are great for canopy skills if you approach them in a planned manner. Have objectives and drills planned out, debrief the jump afterwards.


If you just go up with no diveflow of canopy drills then they are pretty much a regular jump that gets you an exit, some toggle time, and a landing. That isn't bad, but you could be getting more out of it.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[colossus 0]

Jump ticket price = $24 for 10,500 feet
or $13 for 3000ft

Well, there is only one DZ in your area that has those rates as all of the other DZ's charge a hell of a lot more. If I also recall, that is the DZ that you have slagged in the past, and written terrible reviews about.

Frankly, before you start figuring out what to do based on money, you better figure out if you will even be allowed to jump there. This is a VERY small community, and you are from a VERY small province.

[DJL 232]

From 3000 ft and down your time is spent setting up your landing, not learning your canopy. It's a waste of a jump unless your specific objective is ONLY landings and for some reason you don't want to maximize your canopy time. There are many canopy exercises you can run through in jumps from altitude, go find a canopy course.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[skyjumpenfool 2]

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but is the top portion of the canopy ride worth as much a the landing portion? How much is there to really learn under canopy above 3000 ft?

Find a CRW Dawg. If you don't know what that is, ask around. Ask them if they'd be willing to work with you on canopy skills up high (not necessarily CRW). My guess is they'd jump (excuse the pun) at the chance.

You'll learn a great deal about the finer points of canopy control, winds aloff, proximity flying, ect. The'll ultimately try to bring you over to the CRW side of the planet, but, you may even enjoy that.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[CloudyHead 0]

oops you forgot to mention the whole story! it's okay, I'll help. I emailed Sheldon one day asking if he offered a packing course. right away he asked me why I jump at Edmonton all the time when there's a great dropzone in moosejaw. It didn't stop there. For some reason he phoned Eden north to complain to them that they gave me a solo certificate at the club level instead of pushing me right away into a cspa membership. he bitched at them while I was jumping there and I didn't even find out about it until they forwarded his emails to me. I'm willing to put this bullshit aside but if there's even a small chance that you're "community" is holding a grudge against me for giving a bad review then forget it. I won't jump there then.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

And I though U.S. Skydiving politics were special. The sport is going to hell in a hand basket because of fucksticks like that. People who don't think there is enough pie to go around and too stupid to know if they would treat people well they would never have to worry about what the "competition" is doing.

[Pacific 0]

Ask the pilot to let you out at 5k. Isn't 3k too low for A license holders anyway?

[CloudyHead 0]

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And I though U.S. Skydiving politics were special. The sport is going to hell in a hand basket because of fucksticks like that. People who don't think there is enough pie to go around and too stupid to know if they would treat people well they would never have to worry about what the "competition" is doing.

what's even worse is this same guy stood around a group of regulars talking about how stupid the students' questions were. I couldn't believe how uncomfortable that made me and I became afraid to ask any more questions, in fear of his reaction. that was one thing I mentioned in my "slagging" review, and now I might not be "allowed" to jump there again? good riddance. I don't need to jump there

[CloudyHead 0]

lesson learned folks! if you give a dz a bad review, prepare for the possibility of being banned!

[theonlyski 3]

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lesson learned folks! if you give a dz a bad review, prepare for the possibility of being banned!

I treat DZ's like I treat employers. I don't burn bridges because I never know what the future will hold.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[NWFlyer 2]

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lesson learned folks! if you give a dz a bad review, prepare for the possibility of being banned!

I treat DZ's like I treat employers. I don't burn bridges because I never know what the future will hold.

Good way of putting it! I have taken the same approach. There are DZs I choose not to jump at, and if someone asks, I'll talk about my reasons (privately), but I haven't written a single dropzone review, nor have I trashed anyone in the forums or any other online site.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[CloudyHead 0]

oh yeah that's a great point! But it's a horrible point when you take into consideration that we are dealing with peoples lives. If students are made to feel stupid for asking questions, can that not lead them into a dangerous situation which they were afraid to talk about, with fear of being humiliated? This isn't "trashing' anybody, its mere observation of rude behavior towards students. I refuse to keep quiet about it when they start harassing other dropzones that i visit.

[CloudyHead 0]

and by "they", i mean specifically Sheldon Driedger. In my review, i never talked bad of the dropzone, only him. The situation which involved dz-to-dz bickering involved only him too. I never had anything against anyone else from skydive southsask.

When i made my way to alberta to jump, i actually ran into two people who didn't want to jump at MJ as well, because of him.