popsjumper 2 #101 September 7, 2012 Quote I do wish you could convince my back that I am young. When I say "young". I'm tawlking jump numbers and time in sport...not age. You ain't an old fart yet...not yet. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
runningman 0 #102 September 7, 2012 Yeah, I figured as much. I didn't think an angle of incidence would be appropriate in terms of a human body in flight. I'm only familiar with that in regards to airfoils. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dthames 0 #103 September 24, 2012 QuoteAs it is the weekend (pretty much)...any thought of doing a 2-4 way and using your gadget to get some data re: breakoff to pull? As requested, http://pyrodan.privatedata.com/skydive/tracking/tracking-data-sept-22.pdf These are two RW jumps, where I track away at the end. Both were broken off high enough I had plenty of time to stay in the track and see how the horz speed curve would look. But on neither did I get close to max horz speed. The objective was to start from a normal belly flying position and take off in a track. Both were terminated in time for me to slow down before deployment. A topic of interest to me is that in all cases the data shows that there is always an acceleration time which is just physics. You can't skip over that fact. If you want separation it takes time to get speed and then distance.Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #104 September 24, 2012 QuoteYeah, I figured as much. I didn't think an angle of incidence would be appropriate in terms of a human body in flight. I'm only familiar with that in regards to airfoils. It's a very crude airfoil, more of a high angle of attack vortex generator. But it does develop lift and has a certain L/D ratio. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #105 September 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteAs it is the weekend (pretty much)...any thought of doing a 2-4 way and using your gadget to get some data re: breakoff to pull? As requested, http://pyrodan.privatedata.com/skydive/tracking/tracking-data-sept-22.pdf These are two RW jumps, where I track away at the end. Both were broken off high enough I had plenty of time to stay in the track and see how the horz speed curve would look. But on neither did I get close to max horz speed. The objective was to start from a normal belly flying position and take off in a track. Both were terminated in time for me to slow down before deployment. A topic of interest to me is that in all cases the data shows that there is always an acceleration time which is just physics. You can't skip over that fact. If you want separation it takes time to get speed and then distance. Now you’re catching on. Next go out solo from 12,500, turn away from the line of flight and go into a track. Hold it until 5 or 6 thousand and then see was the graphs say. And I mean hold it until it hurts, if you are sore and winded after you are not doing it right. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #106 September 24, 2012 sparky just curious why do you think tracking should hurt? Is your old age showing through there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #107 September 24, 2012 Quote sparky just curious why do you think tracking should hurt? Is your old age showing through there? F-U Noob.A good track is somewhat like planking in a hurricane. You are PUSHING on the air to make yourself fly, harder than most people ever do. After a long time off due to surgery, I did a solo max track from 13K. I stopped halfway down and shook the ache out of my shoulders. Those muscles, which I had rehabbed, were sore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #108 September 24, 2012 Quote sparky just curious why do you think tracking should hurt? Is your old age showing through there? Lie on the ground on your back, arms at your sides. Lift your upper body and arms some inches off the ground, and do the same for your legs. Balance there on your butt for 60 seconds. It may not 'hurt' but can be a bit of a workout. Although perhaps an exaggeration, a good track can feel like that. (I'm not sure if everyone agrees on that, but it does somewhat correspond to the pressure on the legs and the balancing issue that seems to apply to some good tracking. Other viewpoints welcome.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #109 September 24, 2012 Quote sparky just curious why do you think tracking should hurt? Is your old age showing through there? More likely your skill level is showing through... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #110 September 25, 2012 Quote sparky just curious why do you think tracking should hurt? Is your old age showing through there? Just a wild ass guess...for a noob like you it should be a snap. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dthames 0 #111 September 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteAs it is the weekend (pretty much)...any thought of doing a 2-4 way and using your gadget to get some data re: breakoff to pull? As requested, http://pyrodan.privatedata.com/skydive/tracking/tracking-data-sept-22.pdf These are two RW jumps, where I track away at the end. Both were broken off high enough I had plenty of time to stay in the track and see how the horz speed curve would look. But on neither did I get close to max horz speed. The objective was to start from a normal belly flying position and take off in a track. Both were terminated in time for me to slow down before deployment. A topic of interest to me is that in all cases the data shows that there is always an acceleration time which is just physics. You can't skip over that fact. If you want separation it takes time to get speed and then distance. Now you’re catching on. Next go out solo from 12,500, turn away from the line of flight and go into a track. Hold it until 5 or 6 thousand and then see was the graphs say. And I mean hold it until it hurts, if you are sore and winded after you are not doing it right. Sparky Here Sparky, I updated the file. Look at added pages 7-9. I am not sure I held it until it hurt, as I was told skydiving must be fun :) Not the greatest tracking dive but I was just having a nice time flying along enjoying the view. I will have a chest mounted altimeter soon, which will make this smoother, performance wise. http://pyrodan.privatedata.com/skydive/tracking/tracking-data-sept-22.pdf Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #112 September 28, 2012 QuoteHere Sparky, I updated the file. Look at added pages 7-9. I am not sure I held it until it hurt, as I was told skydiving must be fun :) Not the greatest tracking dive but I was just having a nice time flying along enjoying the view. I will have a chest mounted altimeter soon, which will make this smoother, performance wise. http://pyrodan.privatedata.com/...ing-data-sept-22.pdf Your new link does't work but the data shows up on your old link. I don’t know about “skydiving must be fun” but it should be. Tracking is a survival skill that all jumpers should work hard at mastering. Anytime you jump with another jumper/s a plan for break off should be discussed. On big ways, 100+, this can involve tracking for several thousands of feet. While skydiving is always fun it can be hard work. The chest mount altimeter is a great idea…..no matter what type of jumping you it is easy to see. I wore one for over 30 years. http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/Wingsuit.jpg http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp55/mjosparky/Skydiving/mount1.jpg Keep posting your results. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dthames 0 #113 January 25, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuote***Suggests to me that there is an advantage to adjusting one's angle of incidence as one accelerates.*** What do you mean by angle of incidence? Did you mean angle of attack? That bit confused me a little. OK, sorry for the confusion. Without hard data this is all speculation, but I EXPECT the best way to get good separation is to fly at the angle of ATTACK that maximizes the magnitude of your lift vector. Since your path with respect to the ground is flattening out as you accelerate (and glide ratio increases) this would require a body angle relative to the ground that changes (and flattens) as you accelerate in the track. Nice that Dan is willing to do these experiments and share his data. Motivating me to put my Flysight on my RW helmet. I jumped a lot since Christmas. I collected GPS data on a number of solo and group tracking dives. I collected GPS data on a few RW jumps. When I was a teen it was common to be sure you knew how fast your car would go. So, if you know me you know I would have to go out and try max performance tracking. The following file has two jumps. The first is my efforts to go as fast as I can. The little vents in my goggles let in too much air going fast and my eyes tear up. At times I have to ease up so I can see. The second jump a friend that was with me dropped out and so I pushed hard from the middle of the dive until the end. In both cases, after I got up a good head of steam, I just relaxed and coasted. On the first jump I was listening to the Flysight in Glide Ratio mode and the numbers shot up a lot right after I relaxed and shallowed out. But the horz speed bled off slower than the vertical speed (predictable), which can be seen in the graphs. http://pyrodan.privatedata.com/skydive/tracking/high-performance-track-9-Jan-2013.pdf Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
