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frankyblue

Dangers of a newbie tunnel rat

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Long story short, I have had 4 months off of skydiving because of work. I have hit the tunnel hard during my time away though. So Last time at the dz, I could barely sit fly, and today I am conferrable taking docks in HD and HU positions.

So I don't want to be a tool for being so far ahead skill wise for my low jump numbers. I also know there is a lot one can not learn in the tunnel. What do I need to know not to put myself and others in danger?

Basically, how do I not be THAT guy
I never pull out... unless its a pilot chute, in that case yes I do pull.

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Can you track?
Can you stay relative on your belly?



Can you safely approach a formation?

Can you fly a pattern?
Do you have good awareness in the pattern so you don't put yourself & others at risk?
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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The tunnel sessions are normally 1,5-2 minutes . 90 seconds from 13 500ft will give you AAD fire ( if you have one ) . Don't forget that !
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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You have 130 jumps. If you're actually a decent tunnel flier, go do some dive practice. Leave a second or so after the skilled coach, and dive out and chase him. Do fall rate and tracking dives.

Do fall rate and movement drills with good freefliers.

Do learn about proper equipment.

Do be aware of your crummy canopy control skills and learn the progression methodically. If you don't want to be that guy, don't believe you can fly a parachute with low jump numbers.

Don't do big ways ... yet. Start small just like every one should. You still need to learn proper approach, slot flying, dock taking, and most of all proper break off. Proper break offs should be drilled into everyone.

Don't think you're actually good at what you're not good at yet.

Where I jump, we have an exceptional talent pool. It's not from low or even high jump numbers. It's proper training and caring about it. As the jumpers progress in both the tunnel and sky, the better they jumps go.

You won't be that guy unless you're already that guy ;). In other words, you're still newb whether you can out fly me in the tunnel or not.

I know a PHENOMENAL tunnel flyer. He can do big ways safely due to everyone around him being skilled as well. It's rather funny to watch him fly and land his 170 spectre. He stays clear of everyone in the pattern due to proper training. Another thing I like, is he knows his air skills are exceptional and clearly understands his place in the canopy control world.

BTW comfortably taking docks head up and head down are pretty basic skills. I do that with low time jumpers all the time. You're still new but have a slightly advanced set of air skills. That's all.

Go have fun.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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High five for doing all the work in the tunnel. You obviously have the kind of determination it takes to learn new skills.

Now take that same determination and use it towards the other skydiving skill sets that go along with becoming a well rounded skydiver.

Be methodical about learning canopy control and to some extent, basic rigging. I'm not saying you need to learn to pack a reserve (yet ;)) but learning how to set up and maintain your gear properly is important, especially because the speeds that you are flying at now are significantly faster. Your gear needs to be able to manage some serious freeflying. There are lots of people who can teach you canopy control if you want to accelerate your learning. Look for a good teacher, not just a hot canopy pilot.

I'm still thinking about this theory, but I suspect that a lot of the people who get in trouble but have mad tunnel skills sort of "take a break" when it comes to pressing hard to learn many of the additional skills of skydiving. There are also lots of stories about people who do exactly what you are doing and learn everything they can. Be that guy.

When I had 100+ jumps, I flew like I had 100 jumps and people kept an eye on me. If I was flying like you are now, I think people might have given me less crap about the stupid things I did... and I'd have paid for that.




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Long story short, I have had 4 months off of skydiving because of work. I have hit the tunnel hard during my time away though. So Last time at the dz, I could barely sit fly, and today I am conferrable taking docks in HD and HU positions.

So I don't want to be a tool for being so far ahead skill wise for my low jump numbers. I also know there is a lot one can not learn in the tunnel. What do I need to know not to put myself and others in danger?

Basically, how do I not be THAT guy

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Not true in all cases. Have been on some belly jumps that had people who freefly 99% of the time, they were horrible on their belly and one of them was down right scary.



As a straight skydiver, sure. As a tunnel rat, not likely. You need to be proficient on belly and back to get to the advanced head down stuff.

Anyways - I'll just add my support for the point that your freefall skills are substantially ahead of your canopy skills. Please don't forget that as you start jumping again and roll up to the 500s, pre-1000s, etc.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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If dude can fly proficiently HD and HU, im willing to bet my life on his belly flying. Freefly makes you a better flyer in any position, i dont care what anybody says. Its true



I've been on some hybrid jumps that prove otherwise. It is surprising to know someone can fly HD and yet struggle to dock on the base.

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If dude can fly proficiently HD and HU, im willing to bet my life on his belly flying. Freefly makes you a better flyer in any position, i dont care what anybody says. Its true



I've been on some hybrid jumps that prove otherwise. It is surprising to know someone can fly HD and yet struggle to dock on the base.



As fast said, maybe for someone who only freeflies in the sky.. I can see it being possible, but to progress to HD in the tunnel and fly it proficiently you must first master belly, back, sit, and transitions... So its pretty ridiculous to still suck at that point.

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to progress to HD in the tunnel and fly it proficiently you must first master belly, back, sit, and transitions



Master is a strong word.

In order to progress in the tunnel you have to demonstrate safety not mastery.

Nobody only interested in FF "masters" belly in the tunnel.

When you're in the tunnel at 80% nobody is going to be on their belly. ever. They will bail to their back and pop back up into a sit.

Unless you are specifically looking to belly fly in the tunnel, the wind speeds alone mean that nobody is going to be on their belly unless they want a quick trip to the top of the tube.

It is fairly easy to get an instructor to "sign you off" on something after doing it just once or twice so you can move on to the next thing.

To "master" it, you would be able to fly the advanced RW dive pool. All the blocks, all the slots. That's a mastery.

I think people assume that just because belly flying is the "student position" (as one free flyer at my DZ calls it) there isn't much to it.

There are plenty of tunnel rats who did some center point turns on their belly, did some back to belly transitions, got signed off on the "basics" after a total of an hour or three of tunnel time, and then never get in the tunnel under 75%.

I would argue that A) they never mastered belly because that isn't the requirement for tunnel progression and B) even if they were ok at it at some point in time, if you spend 95% of your time FF your belly skills are going to be rusty anyway.

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If dude can fly proficiently HD and HU, im willing to bet my life on his belly flying. Freefly makes you a better flyer in any position, i dont care what anybody says. Its true



Stick around a little longer...you'll find out that is not true.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Belly flying is still cool, and I respect the teams that are great at it. I just believe you get more bang for your buck practicing FF in the tunnel rather than belly drills.

I also see more newbies expiring to be FFers than belly flyers. So I see it as the discipline of the future.

I guess its a skiers vs snowboarders rival.
I never pull out... unless its a pilot chute, in that case yes I do pull.

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I also see more newbies expiring to be FFers than belly flyers.



Please tell me they're not dying just to be a freeflyer. ;)

BTW, I think you missed the point there; no one was arguing the relative merits or coolness of freeflying vs. belly flying, but several folks were challenging the idea that NeonLights posted "Freefly makes you a better flyer in any position."

I've been on enough belly formations and hybrids where at least some of the freeflyers couldn't dock on a formation on their belly well or safely, even though they are strong in a sit or head down to know that good freefly skills don't always translate to good belly skills.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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i only freefly because booties make my ankles look big :PB| but for real keep focused on exits, tracking, altitude awareness and canopy flight. ive jumped with a few people who have a lot of tunnel time but really struggle to launch a stable exit, or even dive down to a formation on their head or in a sit.

and have fun because at the end of the day youll learn better that way!

"its just a normal day at the dropzone until its not"

1653

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I've been on enough belly formations and hybrids where at least some of the freeflyers couldn't dock on a formation on their belly well or safely,



True. But, guess what. Same goes for belly flyers not being able to dock well or safely.

I agree that freeflyers need to be good (enough) belly flyers and it definitely happens how it's being presented here but ..... I am often mind boggled when I watch belly fliers with *many*many*many* jumps that can't perform basic fall rate control on a 2 point 6 way.

I noticed you italicized the words don't always in your post so I know we are in agreement.


BTW to all my fellow Freeflyers. You pretty much NEED to be able to fly well on your belly. If you can't, then practice. You might just have some fun doing it. We very often incorporate belly points in our vertical dives so get good at it.

.... Some day I will be an expiring freeflyer....
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Belly flying is still cool, and I respect the teams that are great at it. I just believe you get more bang for your buck practicing FF in the tunnel rather than belly drills.

I also see more newbies expiring to be FFers than belly flyers. So I see it as the discipline of the future.

I guess its a skiers vs snowboarders rival.



That rivalry is nonexistent to proficient flyers. I highly encourage you to do bad ass multi point 2 and 4 ways on your belly. Believe it or not, you need some of those skills in freeflying.

Also, to learn how to safely dive down, approach, and dock on a formation, is easier learn at belly speeds rather than going full blast through a barely built zoo head down dive.

I'll do a belly way any day. Freefly skills help me belly fly but belly skills help me belly fly even more. Most of our freeflyers where I jump can fly quite well on their belly.

I'm a freeflyer and unless I am doing AFF, I usually freefly. I still do belly jumps and love it if I get in with people who can belly fly better than I can.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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I dunno, I'm pretty sure I could keep up with a lot of freefliers on my belly. I want to try that with a small group one of these days when they're not being all hoity-toidy about being affected by gravity better than you. Ok really they're never actually like that, but it's a funny thought.
I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

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