hawaii skydiving collision

[ctrph8 0]

That part was just less out of line than the rest of the post so I focused on the first part. Are you saying that your post is NOT speculation?

Or that there is a guilty party who deserves consequences?

Or that someone recklessly endangered someone?

Those are very serious accusations. Do you not see how inflammatory and irresponsible that is? It will probably not be proven or disproven here. The results of whatever investigation happens will most likely not be posted in large part because of the kinds of things you are insinuating. I'm not saying it would be because of you specifically. You just give the clearest example.

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Here:

"Maybe it will be disproven. Either way, similarly guilty parties will realize they may well face consequences if they recklessly endanger the rest of us. I don't think making the skies safer for All is a bad thing."

You had forgotten the rest of that quote. Don't hide behind the mud-slinging excuse. I specifically worded that to show it may or may not be the case in this incident.

[Krip 2]

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Pretending bad things in the sport don't happen isn't going to make them go away.

Thread drift: Not Hawaii

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4433576;page=unread#unread

What does the industry do with a jumper that continues to put people at risk becauuse he wants to max out his fun factor at the risk of others? (Video's included)

Should he be Sued if/when he hurts someone?

Should he be blacklisted?

"Skydivers don't sue skydivers" That was back in the day when one of the basic rules in jumping was cause no harm to others. That rule went out the window a long time ago.

I doubt this jumper who I nicknamed crazy Ivan will clean up his act. If he hurts himself to bad for him that was his decision he knows who to blame.

But what happens when crazt Ivan hurts someone else. In the air or on the ground by continueing to fail to fly the landing pattern, land to close to people on the ground etc etc. Check out the video's.

What would you do if he tried to get on your load or showed up at your DZ and repeated his immature selfish behavior.?

Don't get your panties in a bunch folks I'm not jumping anymore and I don't like lawyers. But how long is the industry and their customers going to continue to kick the can down the road ?.

One Jump Wonder

[PiLFy 0]

Is this not the same incident:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4432324;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

That accusation has already been made, then. I wouldn't want to sling mud where it didn't belong. That said. There is a palpable fear of being taken out by some Wild Child... If it is proven that someone flagrantly disregards the safety of others by say, strafing through the pattern under a ridiculously small wing? Then yes, there should be consequences. Attempt to kill me w/your car, & you're gonna have problems. Same rules would apply for virtually any other method you might employ. Why would you feel this would be OK?

[airtwardo 6]

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what is the upside to reporting it?

Discussion and learning opportunities.
Even the 'speculation' that some whine about generates new topics for discussion and more learning opportunities.

Let's not get all involved with tunnel vision thinking every post in the thread should be strictly about the facts of the incident.

I couldn't agree more!

I kinda look at it the other way around...

I take it for granted that the report isn't rock solid accurate in most cases.

It's not a professional investigator or journalist posting, it's a skydiver with a perspective.

What he saw, heard, remembers etc. isn't an NFL 'booth review', it's gonna be flawed.

Add to that a degree of difficulty some have expressing themselves, differences in terms or vocabulary - and misinterpretations are to be expected.

That's okay...what the incident report DOES is let everyone know 'something went bad someplace'
~ A wake up call that just may reduce some complacency, if you don't know bad stuff is happening you may develop a false sense of security.

In most cases you at the very least get a gist of what happened, 'the type of incident'
~ Enables us to recognize trends that may otherwise go unnoticed & thus not dealt with in a timely manner.

Usually get an idea of the gear used and the environmental conditions present, the specific independent variables.
~ Gives us food for thought regarding finding ourselves in similar situations.

I like the speculation & the varied input discussing possibilities...it's enlightening, educational and often entertaining.

It encourages thought about situations you may not have heard of or expected and ideas about how to deal with them.

Many times I've come to realize the idea I had in my head on how to react to a certain scenario is outdated, been improved upon, unrealistic or just plain wrong.

Several times I've spent the better part of an evening following up on an idea I saw in the thread...checking several sources and working to clarify my understanding.

No matter where you are as far as skill & experience in this sport, you STILL don't even know what all you don't know.

As my fellow old farts can attest, back when we jumped rocks for gear & the interweb wasn't even a dream - communication was slow & much MORE inaccurate...gotta wonder how many lives may have been saved or injuries avoided had we been able to discuss incidents at length as we do here.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[ctrph8 0]

I can see what you are saying. I have a vision of what "reporting" should look like and the reality of the way the forums work is sometimes different. I still think I'll only report what I actually know but I can see your point.

I do remember when the beer line wireless network was pretty much it as far as reporting went.

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what is the upside to reporting it?

Discussion and learning opportunities.
Even the 'speculation' that some whine about generates new topics for discussion and more learning opportunities.

Let's not get all involved with tunnel vision thinking every post in the thread should be strictly about the facts of the incident.

I couldn't agree more!

I kinda look at it the other way around...

I take it for granted that the report isn't rock solid accurate in most cases.

It's not a professional investigator or journalist posting, it's a skydiver with a perspective.

What he saw, heard, remembers etc. isn't an NFL 'booth review', it's gonna be flawed.

Add to that a degree of difficulty some have expressing themselves, differences in terms or vocabulary - and misinterpretations are to be expected.

That's okay...what the incident report DOES is let everyone know 'something went bad someplace'
~ A wake up call that just may reduce some complacency, if you don't know bad stuff is happening you may develop a false sense of security.

In most cases you at the very least get a gist of what happened, 'the type of incident'
~ Enables us to recognize trends that may otherwise go unnoticed & thus not dealt with in a timely manner.

Usually get an idea of the gear used and the environmental conditions present, the specific independent variables.
~ Gives us food for thought regarding finding ourselves in similar situations.

I like the speculation & the varied input discussing possibilities...it's enlightening, educational and often entertaining.

It encourages thought about situations you may not have heard of or expected and ideas about how to deal with them.

Many times I've come to realize the idea I had in my head on how to react to a certain scenario is outdated, been improved upon, unrealistic or just plain wrong.

Several times I've spent the better part of an evening following up on an idea I saw in the thread...checking several sources and working to clarify my understanding.

No matter where you are as far as skill & experience in this sport, you STILL don't even know what all you don't know.

As my fellow old farts can attest, back when we jumped rocks for gear & the interweb wasn't even a dream - communication was slow & much MORE inaccurate...gotta wonder how many lives may have been saved or injuries avoided had we been able to discuss incidents at length as we do here.