Optimal # of student jumps in a day?

[Ron 7]

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I don't think physical fitness plays a very big part in this question

I disagree. Having been an instructor with some of the most fit people you can find and having jumped with some regular joes.....The fit folks were able to keep their mental edge better and were able to make more jumps and retain more.

I have found very few activities where good physical fitness does not help.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kelpdiver 2]

opinion noted (and appreciated).

[Ron 7]

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opinion noted (and appreciated).

As a SCUBA Instructor have you not found the same thing? Just wondering.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[gravitysucks 0]

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To get my "A" I took a trip to Eloy. I did 5-6 jumps a day and spent 10 minutes a day in the tunnel. I'll bet i'm a much better skydiver than someone that did 2-3 jumps a day for several weekends.

I disagree wholeheartedly. You would have been better off saving your money to go to Eloy when you had enough experience to really enjoy it (not that you didn't). The student who does three jumps a day over a period of several weeks is still staying current. When you span your training over a period of time you are less likely to neglect the mental aspect, from emergency procedures to your own personal philosophy which drives you to want to skydive. Plus, studies have shown that simulated training, even imagining the steps of an action such as a skydive, are the same or better than actually doing the act. I would even go so far as to say your type, or the type that wants to do as many jumps in a day or get their "A" in two weeks, are less likely to stay in the sport. You get the "been there, done that" attitude and a complacency thinking that you can jump all you want, problem free. There are exceptions of course, but I just used your case as an example. Good luck on getting you "B" license, or should I just say "good luck next weekend"?

[magnio 0]

I did my AFF level 1-7 (9 jumps...) in 3 days - 1 on the first, because I had to leave early, 3 the next and 5 on the last day. My fifth jump that day was at the edge of what I could do, I was really exhausted when I came down. Then I did my last 11 jumps (8 solo+3 hand deployed) in 3 days and got my A-licence.

But I had about 10 static line jumps already, so the adrenaline rush probably was less for me than for many of the other students. Adrenaline really exhausts you - when I did my first jump, on a Saturday morning, I was totally exhausted and hardly able to drive home in the evening. I couldn't even think about doing more jumps that day!

Another thing is that I find it pretty scary that a person could have her A-licence and be an independent jumper in just a few days and with experience from only one dropzone. Of course experience from several DZ may be a luxury (I did my ~30 student jumps in 5 DZs), but it is certainly very useful to see the practice in other places - or at least have enough time at your only DZ to absorb what's going on around you, not just do an extremely intensive course and all your jumps in 3 days. There is simply so much to absorb and learn, both mentally and physically as well as skills and theory, that the average person should hardly think about it.

[riggerrob 558]

Another thing is that I find it pretty scary that a person could have her A-licence and be an independent jumper in just a few days and with experience from only one dropzone. Of course experience from several DZ may be a luxury (I did my ~30 student jumps in 5 DZs),

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I disagree.
Every DZ has a slightly different program (i.e. different hand signals, different pull altitudes, etc.) that are not enough to kill you, but may result in failing a level.
I advise students to do their first dozen or so jumps at one DZ (i.e. complete a block of instruction). Once they have "found their groove" then they can start visiting other DZs, learning other landing patterns, etc.
It takes a few dozen jumps before students can consistently do standing landings near the target. Having the same landmarks - during that learning process - vastly accelerates the learning curve.

Later on, it is a good idea to visit other DZs - and learn other cultures - to round out your education.

[kelpdiver 2]

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opinion noted (and appreciated).

As a SCUBA Instructor have you not found the same thing? Just wondering.

First off, never have been a sanctioned instructor. Have done things in the past along those lines, but talking about perhaps 40 students. These days I act more as finishing school for friends.

Moving on, student divers are restricted to 2 dives a day for the 2 days it takes to get the OW card. And even without that requirement, cold water diving in 50F water with 80lbs of gear means few people do more than 3 dives in a day. It's a very physical activity, with few moments where adrenaline would be pumping. And there are enough built in rest pauses to calm down any nerves since their SAC will spike.

So our conditions self regulate pretty well. When a person gets too chilled, they rarely have any interest in going back in. I once managed to step over the line, doing 4 dives in 5 hours in 47 degree water. But that was driven more by scheduling conflicts - went from a biology class to a boat reservation. Took me more than a day to get back to normal.

Skydiving is not a very physical activity, but your experience would lead me to surmise that fitter people can better tolerate the physiological stress of the adrenaline spikes, which may translate to a higher acceptable number of jumps per day. It does make sense - the mind can get fatigued by physical discomfort. Same for the affects of altitude exposure or being crammed into a smaller cessna.

[agent_lead 0]

i completed my aff in 2 days..

8 jumps..

3 in one day

5 on the next..

since then havnt done more then 2 in 1 day...

although i always want to do more then i actually do..

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www.facebook.com/agentlead

[packerboy 3]

I did 2-3 jumps a day for several weekends when I was a student, and I would bet that I am the better skydiver right now

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Orange1 0]

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To get my "A" I took a trip to Eloy. I did 5-6 jumps a day and spent 10 minutes a day in the tunnel. I'll bet i'm a much better skydiver than someone that did 2-3 jumps a day for several weekends.

Yeah, I'd be more interested in seeing posts from instructors saying "students who do 5-6 jumps a day are much better skydivers". So far, there aren't any. I doubt that any such advantage, if it exists, would last very long anyway, unless you continue doing 5-6 jumps a day in perpetuity.

There's no argument that the more experience you get the better, but sometimes you get good (different) experience hanging around dropzones chatting too. I've learnt a lot on the ground.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[AFFI 0]

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Yeah, I'd be more interested in seeing posts from instructors saying "students who do 5-6 jumps a day are much better skydivers".

First off, I was introduced to skydiving via AFF and finished the course in 7 jumps with no repeat dives - in my first YEAR of skydiving I only made 12 jumps. I was on a tight budget and sometimes put 2 months between student jumps then on to level 8's where it bacame more affordable.

What makes a “better” skydiver? In my humble opinion it is simple. The skydiver who is best prepared to deal with emergencies CORRECTLY and who has taken canopy piloting seriously learning how to fly their canopy in a variety of modes of flight and has learned how to take evasive action low to the ground while keeping the canopy overhead (braked flight, flat turn). A lot of skydivers think that what they can do in freefall is the determining factor when making their grade as a skydiver but how many times have you been on a jump plane riding to altitude and the person next to you has a femur sticking out?
The only thing that will improve freefall skills is repetitive practice and it is hard to get on the next load if you did not do the following things on the previous skydive:
A) Get a canopy overhead (parachutes dramatically increase our odds surviving the landing)
B) Land it safely (in an area free of obstacles)
C) Don’t hurt yourself (or anyone else)

Then at the bottom of the list of priorities is:
D) Repeat (repetitive practice to improve freefall skills)

Just about every solo freefall instructor I know would agree that at the student level the key to good performance in freefall is for the student to simply RELAX.
Someone new to the sport might have this perspective: We are hurling ourselves out of an airplane thousands of feet above the surface of the planet falling toward certain death, how do these people expect me to relax?
The answer is CONFIDENCE in the students trust in the gear (knowledge dispels fear), their ability to use it properly (proper EP and canopy piloting training) – the confidence is bred from through and proper training. Some relax quicker than others but in my limited experience 100% of skydiving students begin to display improvements in freefall when they begin to RELAX in freefall. Skydive students begin to relax at varying rates but it comes with the confidence that they will not only survive the landing but walk (or prance) away with a smile on their face having participated in an activity many believe to be the most fun a human being can have with their clothes on.
Safety first, good freefall skills come from repetitive practice and repetitive practice is bred from putting safety first.

This is only my opinion, I could be wrong…

I posted the Safety Check for November 2005 by Jim Crouch (Director of Safety and Training) in a new thread to generate some discussion concerning this most important topic...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[Ron 7]

AFFI has it 100 correct in post 41 of this thread.

Good skydivers are the ones that live without steel in them.

I had a buddy, a teammate. He was a tunnel rat and an AMAZING flyer. He had about 900 jumps and I had 2,000 but he could fly circles around me in freefall...No doubt he was better than me.

He knew nothing about his gear. He didn't even know how to hook up a three ring. He didn't know what the ribs of a canopy were called.

He had a mal and bounced...He died from a simple mal with a perfectly good reserve on his back.

Way to often people equate the number of points they can turn, or the cool things they can do on their head as proof of them being better than someone else.

Better to me means not dead or injured.

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Yeah, I'd be more interested in seeing posts from instructors saying "students who do 5-6 jumps a day are much better skydivers". So far, there aren't any. I doubt that any such advantage, if it exists, would last very long anyway, unless you continue doing 5-6 jumps a day in perpetuity.

If you could physically and emotionally handle more jumps at the same level of performance, you would do better. However, it is only in very rare cases I have seen someone able to do that....More jumps often gets you into what pilots call "The region of reversed command". The more effort you put in the less effect you get.

Same thing with team training...Doing to many jumps a day for to many days results in sloppy skydiving. It can help increase your endurance, but it will be sloppy.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334