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Optimal # of student jumps in a day?

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A question that doesn't affect me any more but something I keep on wondering about because it comes up in threads every so often.

There are a number of posts about students doing 5 (sometimes more) jumps in a day, including on AFF. Here, we have a recommendation (not a rule) that the optimal # of jumps for a student in one day is 3, which I guess is to do with being overwhelmed, the amount of new info you can take in, getting tired, etc. I know the argument that the more jumps you get in the more you learn.. but... would be interested in comments from either the students who pushed themselves like that, or instructors. (fwiw, I know that for me personally at that stage 3 jumps in a day was all I could manage.)
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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I was told 3 as well. I don't think I ever did more than 2 jumps in a day early in my progression, though when I was on solo status I once did 4 in a day (that was my max). But at that point, things were less overwhelming to me, so I could handle it.

Like most things in skydiving, there's probably no hard and fast rule; some students could probably handle more. One would hope that instructors would keep an eye on the students for fatigue/overload and say "Enough for today" if they saw signs of it. Some students might hit that at 2 jumps, others might hit it at 5.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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I completed most of my PFF in two days doing 8 jumps (though it was 3 weekends really, to get everything done) at 4 per day. The dropzone limit was 4 per day.

The weekend prior, there was one tandem, and the next weekend was a repeat level, some pratice full-altitude supervised freefalls, and a graduating hop-n-pop once my pull-time anxiety was mostly gone. The tandem was a prerequisite (sort of like a tandem progression).

It wasn't too much in large part because I already did a few tandems (4 tandems to be exact -- 2 just prior and 2 in previous years), and in the last two tandems, I was responsible for proving altitude awareness and helping with turns and landing flare.

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When I was doing AAF I was only allowed to do 3 jumps a day. Once I passed AFF, I was doing about 5 jumps a day. Of course I would go home and fall asleep at about 8pm. My buddies did AFF in Holland and if I remember correctly they were doing 4 a day.
#148 Sonic Scrat
"Have you ever kissed a rabbit between the eyes?" Woodpecker pulling out his pants pockets to the waitress

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Personally, the most student jumps I ever did in a day was 2, but I did do 6 over 3 days time (2 a day) when I finished up my student status.

The DZ I learned at... at that time... would mostly only let students do 3 jumps total in one day.

Since getting off of student status... the most I've done in one day was 11, but 10 of those were night hop-n-pops... long story.

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To make a ruling like that is unreasonable IMO.

Where I did AFF they said to do what you felt comfortable doing.

If you are dealing with a student who is physically not very fit, or picks things up slowly then they may do less, someone fit and that picks things up quickly could probably do more.

Max I did was 3 on AFF (although did 2 solos after that on same day).
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If you are dealing with a student who is physically not very fit, or picks things up slowly then they may do less, someone fit and that picks things up quickly could probably do more.



I don't think physical fitness plays a very big part in this question. It's much more about the mental state of the student who gets an adrenaline rush just walking to the plane (or getting manifested even), then one when DOOR is shouted, another lining up in the door, one long one for the jump, and a final one on landing.

Fitness could play a role with repeated exposures to 15k msl, but I think the others hit much sooner.

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To make a ruling like that is unreasonable IMO.



I did say it was a recommendation, not a rule...

Kelpdiver:
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I don't think physical fitness plays a very big part in this question. It's much more about the mental state of the student who gets an adrenaline rush just walking to the plane (or getting manifested even), then one when DOOR is shouted, another lining up in the door, one long one for the jump, and a final one on landing. Fitness could play a role with repeated exposures to 15k msl, but I think the others hit much sooner.


in my experience i would agree with that - the day i did my first jump, one was enough! a friend on the FJC with me wore his heart rate monitor on his jump and the readings were quite something, especially at the door when it spiked dramatically - and this is a guy who is extremely fit - his mental exhaustion was about the same as mine!
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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but they generally had to repeat levels because they were getting overwhelmed. <<<<<<<<<

Thats the reason some places say 2-3 a day. Here it more about avability with all the tandems. The most I have done in a day as a student was 3, the most I have ever done in a day was 11. 10 tandems, 1 funjump.
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Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

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To get my "A" I took a trip to Eloy. I did 5-6 jumps a day and spent 10 minutes a day in the tunnel. I'll bet i'm a much better skydiver than someone that did 2-3 jumps a day for several weekends.

I think the more experience you get the better. Especially early on. That has been the case for me. I saw another guy in Eloy who traveled from canada. Finish ASP (AFF) in a day. I saw him in the tunnel that night.. Looked pretty good.

The way to go is total submersion... If you can afford it.

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To get my "A" I took a trip to Eloy. I did 5-6 jumps a day and spent 10 minutes a day in the tunnel. I'll bet i'm a much better skydiver than someone that did 2-3 jumps a day for several weekends.



In some regards, I bet that's true, esp for physical skills. In others, I'd bet the other way. At a place like Perris (and I'm sure many others), every day you come in as a student you spend some time in the harness and your instructor drills you on EPs. Doing that every weekend day for 4 weeks leads to better retention that doing it daily for 5 days. You also have more time in between each weekend to reflect on what you think you know, and what questions you want to ask the instructors.

Likewise, doing a diving class that is 2 weekday nights a week for 3 weeks is better than a continuous Friday-Sunday affair. The mind digests more information in smaller chunks.

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Man I was lucky if I got 2 in a day with our dinky little Cessna! I really don't think I would have wanted to do more than that because of the mental thing. Plus every time I jump I am so sore for at least two days from doing the arch. I hope this gets better!
Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

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I have worked with students where their 5th jump of the day was their strongest and best in air performance of the day and we could have kept going had the sun not set. The flow of the day just worked in their favor complementing their stamina. Of course, this example is an exception to the norm.

I have also worked with some that after 3 jumps wanted to keep going but I knew that they were starting to sputter and after suggesting a break (so the adrenalin energy can subside) they usually realize they need to call it a day – I like to allow students to recognize things for themselves and always afford them the opportunity to call it a day rather than have me pull the plug. I believe it not only empowers the student in making their own choices but also increases their self awareness concerning their own limitations (winds, clouds, deployment altitudes ect…). The tricky part is to be aware enough as an instructor to recognize when they are starting to run out of mojo and put the students needs first (before my jump numbers or paycheck, maybe that is why some DZ's implement a limit).

I have also worked with students where 1 was all they could handle.

It all depends on the individual student; there is no "one size fits all" guideline.
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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Ironically (?), my best jumps were usually my first jump after a 1 or 2 week break. The most I ever did in a day during AFF was 3 and that was after doing 2 the previous day. That 3rd jump on the 2nd day was an absolute disaster (metaphorically speaking). There wasn't much I could do right on that jump from the exit, freefall, altitude awareness/pull, canopy control and landing. The only positive was that I walked away. :S (That was my 4th attempt at level 7).

Didn't jump again for 2 months. Next one out the door and I nailed it. B|

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To get my "A" I took a trip to Eloy. I did 5-6 jumps a day and spent 10 minutes a day in the tunnel. I'll bet i'm a much better skydiver than someone that did 2-3 jumps a day for several weekends.

I think the more experience you get the better. Especially early on. That has been the case for me. I saw another guy in Eloy who traveled from canada. Finish ASP (AFF) in a day. I saw him in the tunnel that night.. Looked pretty good.

The way to go is total submersion... If you can afford <<<<<<<<<<

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OK man. Good luck. As an Instructor who has trained hundreds of new jumpers with out the option of wind tunnels and turbine aircrafts. I'll have no choice but to believe you with your 25 jumps and all! I mean with your experience who else better to give advice to new jumpers, or to argue with instructors?I'm gonna stick with my original post with the 2-3 jumps perday. With the situational awareness, and fatigue thet can set in and all. You know I think I'll take that bet. I'll bet you can not out fly one of my students, or be safer in the air. As a matter of fact I have this 10 jump student, who I think can out fly you. He is a natural............... It would be unethical though to let you jump with him unless your a coach. Hurry up! were waiting for you, show us something!
I realize you probably replyed to my post with out realizing it, just in a hurry to post...right? anyway
LOL, good luck and I hope to see you in the air someday.:)
_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

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I completely agree that it has a lot to do with a students ability to retain information after the mentally challenging AFF levels, that's what I meant by a students "ability to take things in", I probably just didn't word it well.

I do think that what skydivermom pays a big part, I wouldn't have liked to do more then 3-4 AFF jumps if I was in a cessna.
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OK man. Good luck. As an Instructor who has trained hundreds of new jumpers with out the option of wind tunnels and turbine aircrafts. I'll have no choice but to believe you with your 25 jumps and all! I mean with your experience who else better to give advice to new jumpers, or to argue with instructors?I'm gonna stick with my original post with the 2-3 jumps perday. With the situational awareness, and fatigue thet can set in and all. You know I think I'll take that bet. I'll bet you can not out fly one of my students, or be safer in the air. As a matter of fact I have this 10 jump student, who I think can out fly you. He is a natural............... It would be unethical though to let you jump with him unless your a coach. Hurry up! were waiting for you, show us something!
I realize you probably replyed to my post with out realizing it, just in a hurry to post...right? anyway
LOL, good luck and I hope to see you in the air someday.:)



Sorry tough guy... Didnt mean to post what worked for me. I Just went through it so I figured the insight of a guy that just did it would help someone.

I was responding to the origional post. I didnt know this was for instructors only. Little sensitive arent ya? Get some vagisil for that sore pussy.

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:)
You're being selective about your reserve rides, or were the others off AFF;)?

Off topic, you got any plans to join the hordes down here or are you doing AFFC? We need to do a jump together so I can test the contention above that doing it quicker makes you a better skydiver :ph34r::P
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Optimal # of student jumps in a day?



Great question and a difficult question at the same time.

The answer.......Depends.

Take a normal coach potato and put him on a Dropzone. He might be able to handle 2-3 jumps a day, or he might do better with less or with more.

With fewer jumps per day the strain is less and the importance of the TLO's are more focused. Plus the physical strain is managable.

With more jumps comfort in freefall gets higher, but exhaustion creeps in creating its own set of problems.

Two cases for you.

1. A group of Military SF folks I worked with. We put them through almost 10 student jumps in one day. They were also PT studs and quite sharp in the head. This would be a big mistake for an average person. But one or two jumps a day would be almost boring for this group.

2. Civilian came and wanted to do AFF in one weekend. His original plan was 20 jumps in one weekend. Average guy, average shape. He never made it. By jump 5 day 1 his brain was fried and he was exhausted physically.

Since we don't have Physical tests/Aptitude tests before the FJC a standard rule is in place at 3 per day. There have been times that I have done 5 with a student, and times I stopped them at two.

So like I said....Depends.

Trust the Instructor, and let them make the call. If YOU are the instructor and can't tell....Error on the side of saftey....Exhaustion is a major cause of accidents.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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