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What exactly does AFF allow me to do?

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I'll post a link at the bottom of this to show you what I'm looking at. A nearby DZ has a Phase I and a Phase II AFF program. Is the Phase I useful at all by itself? What does that allow me to do? I suppose I'm just trying to figure out if I spend $1500 on taking the course, what did I get for it, and what is the deal with the second class? I'll didn't want to call and ask because I won't be able to go for at least another month and didn't want to waste their time.

EDIT: here's the link

http://www.skydivecarolina.com/firsttime/certified/

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Short story - the AFF program will clear you to self-supervise, meaning that you can make solo jumps or jumps with a USPA coach (or approved 'expert' skydiver). You are still considered on 'student status' meaning that you are restricted to the limitations of a student (specific gear, lower wind limits, etc). You may also have a problem going to a different DZ as a 'student' and making solo jumps, they might want you to make a check-out dive with an instructor before letting you jump solo.

Once you finish the training and get your A license, you are free to jump at any USPA DZ, with any other licensed jumper (or solo).

What exactly Phase I and Phase II mean at your local DZ, I don't know. You need to call and ask. It's not a waste of their time, it's their job to speak with jumpers/customers.

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Followed your link to Skydive Carolina - you need to confirm with them, but the way AFF in Europe works is - and this assumes NO repeats which are an additional cost! -: Jumps 1 - 7 - Instructors jump with you to assist during the jump and tutor you on ground, Jump 8 - 18 (I know you have slightly less which is why you need to check with Caroline) Instructors do ground tuition, canopy control and will supervise from the ground if required. During jump 8 - 18 you will also do a hop and pop. For BPA, upon signoff by an instructor, the MINIMUM number of jumps is 18, you will get your A licence. I believe that for USPA A licence you need 25 jumps in total for an A licence - which include some relative work. (RW comes later for BPA licence holders!). BUt as a diff poster said, call them. I had been calling DZ's for nearly 3 months - and I called and visited a number of DZ's before committing. Its your money, make an informed decision. Its your life, make the decision based on safety, not on cheapness.

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Different Drop Zones break the price out many ways. In a nutshell, you need a minimum of 16 skydives to skydive solo unsupervised, and 25 to get a license which allows you to jump with people other than coaches and instructors.

If you are price shopping, find out the total cost of all 25 jumps to an A license for comparison purposes. Ask if there is a charge for a packing course to learn the proper way to pack your parachute (there should be and you should take it). Find out how much each additional coached jump costs if you need additional jumps beyond the 25 to get your license.

Having said all above, you shouldn't just be focused on price. You should determine if you 'like' and trust the people who will be training you. Ask to see training materials, and spend some time at their facility watching their operations.

Call them.
For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

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Different Drop Zones break the price out many ways. In a nutshell, you need a minimum of 16 skydives to skydive solo unsupervised, and 25 to get a license which allows you to jump with people other than coaches and instructors.



Any student is (or should be) under the supervision of an instructor. That doesn't mean the instructor is on the jump.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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OK- so the way I'm reading this is their AFP Phase I is essentially the AFF program- 7 jumps to get certified to solo jump as a student. Phase II is 9 more jumps with a trainer to give further coaching and teach the skills needed for an A license. This puts total number of jumps at 16. 9 more jumps meets the 25 minimum for A license, and having already completed the other requirements for it, A license is basically complete at this point. Total estimated cost for all 25 jumps is around $3000, give or take.

Is this about in line with what others have experienced? The Phase II is not required, but does seem like a really good idea to have the extra instruction and build good habits during these early jumps.

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From the SIM:
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An appropriately rated USPA Instructor must directly supervise each student jump until the student is cleared to self supervise during Category E.


I should have said 'self-supervised' unstead of 'unsupervised'.

Quote

Until the USPA A license, all student training remains the responsibility of the USPA Instructor.



I agree with your 'indirect supervision' though. The Instructor is responsible for the student until licensed (arguably indirect supervision assuming all jumps by an unlicensed skydiver are training jumps).
For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

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That sounds right. They're categorizing Phase I as the Instructor jumps (#1-7). Phase II is Coach jumps, and I'm fairly certain the coach jumps are required. The total cost is roughly $2500-$3000, but that depends on if you have to do any repeat jumps. The cost should include all the gear that you'll need. I would definitely give them a call so you can get exact details and they can answer any questions that you have.

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I agree with your 'indirect supervision' though. The Instructor is responsible for the student until licensed (arguably indirect supervision assuming all jumps by an unlicensed skydiver are training jumps).



I never said 'indirect supervision'. ;)

I feel that the students should still discuss their jump plans with an instructor for every jump.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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If he did that, we could never have thread drift about direct/indirect supervision



Not to pick nits, but I"ve always heard it described and considered it to be "cleared for self-supervision in free-fall." That seems pretty clear and consistent w/ the way the drop zones I've been at have handled it too. Student doesn't have to have somebody in freefall but the instructor or coach does still have some supervisory responsibilities for training, gear checks, help w/ spotting, etc.
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

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They may have an A license package call them. I know of one dz that offers an a license package for 1500 includes log book altimeter and gear rental up to 25 jumps! Phase one aff where I learned was lvl 1-3 aff (2 instructor) phase 2 was 4-7 (1 instructor) then 9 coach jumps! Remember have fun!

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OK- so the way I'm reading this is their AFP Phase I is essentially the AFF program- 7 jumps to get certified to solo jump as a student. Phase II is 9 more jumps with a trainer to give further coaching and teach the skills needed for an A license. This puts total number of jumps at 16. 9 more jumps meets the 25 minimum for A license, and having already completed the other requirements for it, A license is basically complete at this point. Total estimated cost for all 25 jumps is around $3000, give or take.

Is this about in line with what others have experienced? The Phase II is not required, but does seem like a really good idea to have the extra instruction and build good habits during these early jumps.




I didnt check the link, and I am 23 jumps deep working towards my A license....


BUT

Yes that pricing is in line with what was available within a reasonable driving distance from STL, MO.

I had to repeat a level so it cost me a bit more but 3k is pretty good, IMO.

GL!

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Total estimated cost for all 25 jumps is around $3000, give or take.

Is this about in line with what others have experienced? .



:S:S:S

Not only no, but HELL NO!
$3000 for A-license?
Somebody is blood-sucking sucking poor ignorant students dry...

For that amount of money you could fly to another DZ, get the license and fly home....all while on nice leisurely vacation.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Yes that pricing is in line with what was available within a reasonable driving distance from STL, MO.

I had to repeat a level so it cost me a bit more but 3k is pretty good, IMO.

GL!



I respect your opinion but you may want to do some research to find out.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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I couldn't resist making my own estimation...

At my DZ, making an optomistic estimation of having two AFF repeats, including gear rental and a successful (first time go) A-Check dive, I'm looking at about $2,000. That of course doesn't include gas, food, beer, etc...

But even this early on, I've quickly learned that the journey is the destination, I'll get there when I get there and not a moment sooner. Meanwhile, It's all about meeting some great peeps :D

So yeah, the cost definitely varies from place to place to place.

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^^^+1^^^

I'm not passing judgment on that DZ or anything, but for a $130 coach jump I'd expect the jump ship to serve refreshments served by my choice of a blonde, brunette, or redhead flight attendant who will also perform an extra gear check while wearing lingerie.

And maybe some Creme Brulee' waiting for me when I land?

What I mean is... That seems awful pricey.

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I wish mine was as cheap as STF but...I also live 30 mins from my home DZ so could do it at my pace as time and funding allowed.

So the breakdown:

AFF A-E2 (no repeats): $1504
E3 (solo): $49
Total AFF: $1553

7 Coach @ 95 per (to include check dive): 665

Remaining 9 at 49 per: $441

Total: $2659

More than some? Probably. Less than some? Probably. Worth the extra grand to do it at my own pace? Dunno. But I've done almost 300 in about 12 months so I guess it is all relative when it comes to time and money.

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