Anyone choose demo program rather than buy used?

[FlowArtist 0]

Hi. I'm about to finish my A so I'm going through the dilemma of deciding how to get my gear. I'm currently going over the pros and cons of buying used or going through Square's demo program. Another thread goes through some of them a little bit, so we don't have to do it here; I'm just curious if anyone has picked the demo program over buying used and are glad they did. It's super expensive, but I like the idea of trying out different gear, being able to downsize, and then settle on a rig I'll use for a looong time.

Thanks

[Whamie 0]

Yo Flo. How's it going. Were you that dude last Sunday at Perris finishing out your dives? if so, congrats.

Hey, I partook in the Square 1 demo however here are my pros and cons from my experience:

Pros:
Awesome staff. Very knowledgeable. Can't ask for a better staff out at Square 1.
I get to try out different canopies before making a purchase.
On Site riggers.
They keep excellent records of the number of jumps you've had and the type of canopy.
You sound like a young buck so be aware that they will not let you progress to a smaller canopy until they feel you are ready. (Staff are always out watching the landings)

Cons:
Maintenance cost does not count toward the money you put down to start. For example, I put $2000 down and there's a $199 monthly maintenance fee that does not count to the $2000 I put down. So make sure your schedule allows you to jump at least 2 weekends a month if you went with a $2000 down/$199 monthly maintenance plan. (Note: Other plans exist just ask them).

Depending on what you want on the rig it can cost up to $8000. Square 1 will not (from what I was told) price match, say, ChutingStar.Com. I've seen complete tricked out rigs at ChutingStar cost $1500 - $2000 less compared to the same build as Square 1.

[Whamie 0]

oh and i went with the demo instead of buying used because i couldn't find a used rig that fits my body that has a size main i wanted to fly.
So the demo program will eventually lead to a custom rig fitted for me with the canopy i want to eventually fly.

[demon4o7 0]

I opted against the demo because of the price. But then again I'm a pretty average guy. 5 11 185. I bought a used javelin with a hornet main reserve and cypress for 2k. I was happy.

[Whamie 0]

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I opted against the demo because of the price. But then again I'm a pretty average guy. 5 11 185. I bought a used javelin with a hornet main reserve and cypress for 2k. I was happy.

You are lucky to find a used that fits you. Where is your home dz?
Wanna jump?

[vpegyed 0]

If you're going to buy through the forums here, just be super patient. I started seriously looking back in October, then around Christmas I found a wings container from 2005 with an older reserve that was in nearly perfect condition for $1200. Found a vigil for 800 bucks with 14 years left, and I'm borrowing a friend's main. I've seen a few great deals but people jump on them pretty quick. It just depends on if you have a common body type or not. Everyone wants beginner gear :)
Good luck with the search.

[skybytch 259]

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Maintenance cost does not count toward the money you put down to start.

Should it? That monthly fee goes for things like reserve repacks and container washes and new closing loops and main canopy relines and... All the things you get to pay for yourself when it's your rig.

If they still offer the no fee for a big deposit deal, that's the hot tip. You're gonna end up handing them all that money anyway; if you have it up front, put it all down and avoid the monthly fee.

To the OP: I didn't use the Sq1 demo program, but I worked for them for a few years so I've seen it from the other side.

If you have the money to buy a new rig right now (or most of it, anyway) and you plan to be jumping a lot, the demo program at Square One is a fantastic way to go about it. Being able to jump pretty much every container and every suitable main on the market before making your purchase decision is huge. You will be able to downsize from student canopies to what you will want to buy when you have 150-200 jumps, instead of buying something too small for you now or something that might be too slow for you then.

You will likely end up spending a bit more on the complete rig than you might be able to find on the interwebs. You have to decide if the benefits of the program are worth the extra cost to you. For sure ask about the possibility of shipping it to a friend in Nevada instead of picking it up at the store (7% + of a complete rig is a lot more than shipping)...

The biggest downside to the demo program is that you can't take the rig with you - so you're limited to jumping only at Perris or renting gear elsewhere for awhile. The other downside is that you may have to get to the dz pretty early on a busy summer Saturday to get the container or main that you want to jump that day.

[Whamie 0]

Quote

Quote

Maintenance cost does not count toward the money you put down to start.

Should it? That monthly fee goes for things like reserve repacks and container washes and new closing loops and main canopy relines and... All the things you get to pay for yourself when it's your rig.

If they still offer the no fee for a big deposit deal, that's the hot tip. You're gonna end up handing them all that money anyway; if you have it up front, put it all down and avoid the monthly fee.

To the OP: I didn't use the Sq1 demo program, but I worked for them for a few years so I've seen it from the other side.

If you have the money to buy a new rig right now (or most of it, anyway) and you plan to be jumping a lot, the demo program at Square One is a fantastic way to go about it. Being able to jump pretty much every container and every suitable main on the market before making your purchase decision is huge. You will be able to downsize from student canopies to what you will want to buy when you have 150-200 jumps, instead of buying something too small for you now or something that might be too slow for you then.

You will likely end up spending a bit more on the complete rig than you might be able to find on the interwebs. You have to decide if the benefits of the program are worth the extra cost to you. For sure ask about the possibility of shipping it to a friend in Nevada instead of picking it up at the store (7% + of a complete rig is a lot more than shipping)...

The biggest downside to the demo program is that you can't take the rig with you - so you're limited to jumping only at Perris or renting gear elsewhere for awhile. The other downside is that you may have to get to the dz pretty early on a busy summer Saturday to get the container or main that you want to jump that day.

Correct, I agree, the monthly fee (maintenance fee) strictly goes to reserve repacks, washes, loops etc. Basically to keep the rig air worthy. What I was referring to is that that fee does not go toward the purchase of a new rig.
So when i put down the $2G and paid the $199 the following month for maintenance, my total for a new rig that I put down didn't go up to $2199. So in that sense I don't mind paying the $199 monthly so that I can be assured that the rig is in tip top shape by the time i rent it.

Yes, Square 1 does offer a no monthly fee if you drop down $8G. However, after 3 months (I think 3 or maybe 6 months) or after 100 jumps, whichever comes first, you pay a $99 monthly fee.

Either way, in the long run, i think the demo program best fits my schedule and needs.

and yeah, i'm already at the DZ by 7:00am to be assured I have a chance of getting the correct sized rig and container i want to use for the day.

[Skydivesg 6]

Just a general response - not to any one in particular.

I get asked all the time for my help in finding new jumpers used rigs. In almost every case I hear the same thing and also read similar posts on this site which goes something like this: "I've been looking for months and just can't find anything used that is appropriate for my size and experience."

I know the typical advice by more experienced jumpers to new people is to "buy used" for all the obvious reasons and that may be good advice except for the fact that it's not easy to do . However, I suggest you ponder this. If you are of average build and weight (regardless of male or female) you may be better off buying new.

If you are having trouble finding used gear then so are other people. I contend that decent used gear for noobies doesn't even get advertised because it get's sold regionally through networking.

A newer jumper who has new gear jumps it for a year or two, puts the word out that they are ordering new gear and will soon be selling their 2 year old gear with a couple hundred jumps on it. The word spreads around the area like wildfire and they often have several people who will buy the used gear before they even get their newly ordered gear delivered. Win- win.

If you get a new rig that is built for an average sized person along with appropriate sized canopies and instead of getting some atrocious personalized coloring scheme, you order colors with high resale value (colors that anyone would be willing to jump) then you can jump the new gear you desire and sell it to the next person who needs used gear.

Obviously there is a huge market for used gear for new people which is why no one can ever find it when they try.

Just my .02

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.
.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[NWFlyer 2]

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If you are having trouble finding used gear then so are other people. I contend that decent used gear for noobies doesn't even get advertised because it get's sold regionally through networking.

While I agree with your points, I've also heard complaints of "I can't find anything" from newer jumpers who are only looking in the complete systems section of the classifieds. Or haven't tried using the "wanted" feature (or have used it but with fairly unclear headlines/text). Or aren't ready/able to "pull the trigger" quickly on a piece of gear, and thus the seller moves on to the next person in line. I know that I've personally been most successful in my own used purchases when I keep an eye on the classifieds daily, and when my first message to the sender includes the words "I will buy it - how can I send payment?" (Doesn't mean I don't also try to negotiate on price or shipping if appropriate, but it means I'm making it clear I'm a serious buyer with cash in hand ready to act).

I've sold modern used gear (mains & reserves) in the noob range (230/210 mains, 218 reserves), and it's not like I've received 20 responses in a day. Most moved within a week or so, but in that time I only had a few serious inquiries.

What that leads me to believe is that newer jumpers may need more guidance from their local experienced folks in how to find and piece together gear. They also need help in assessing the value of used items and being able to make a quick decision on whether they want to move forward with a purchase. That's where I imagine a lot of newer jumpers struggle, and it's understandable that they do - it's tough for them to know if a piece of gear, as described, seems to be fairly priced. (This is assuming they already know that it's an appropriate choice for them).

That's where programs like this demo program can come in handy, or where gear dealers that will help their customers find used gear (or piece together a combination of used and new components) can be really helpful. I'm sure there are others who do this kind of stuff, but I'll use Bonnie at Gravity Gear as a perfect example - she's reached out to me a couple of times when I've been selling used gear because what I'm selling might be appropriate for one of her customers. And she's usually trying to get a better deal out of me, which is value add for her customer!

When I was a noob, I combed the classifieds with trusted advisers looking over my shoulder, and IIRC I didn't have to wait all that long to find an appropriate container/reserve (though at the time I'm sure it seemed like FOREVER it was probably only a couple of weeks). I found my main by putting up a wanted ad, and was contacted by a large dealer who had something in stock that was perfect.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Southern_Man 0]

Larger dealers often have some inventory and that can help greatly. I bought my first system by calling a bunch of the gear stores and asking what they had in used equipment and found a nice package deal. I am a fairly common size, so that helped.

Local riggers are also a useful resource as they will know who has gear that they are thinking about selling.

You are right that used gear is often sold locally or regionally and not on DZ.com.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"