Rig choices

[BillyVance 34]

Having looked through my new issue of Parachutist, I did a double take on the prices for complete systems offered by Chutingstar.

My Infinity container, Tempo 120 reserve, Triathlon 120 main and Cypres AAD altogether cost me about $3400 brand new in January 1998.

A whole new system today is about double that.

I think it's safe to say that for me personally, I bought my last brand new anything 15 years ago.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[uberchris 0]

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+1

My talon fx was decked out, double wide leg straps, cut in laterals and padding for 2k through square 1. Plus that curv is DAMN sexy.

i got a FAT military discount through RI, and my curve shipped last week. had i not got such a discount i would have gone with an infinity, but in my opinion the curve is unbelievably comfortable, and DAMNED sexy.

gravity brings me down.........

[Diezel 0]

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Look at how many flaps, and in what configuration(s) enclose your reserve container. Then, overlay that with how (whichever rig you are considering) is even further structured with your main closed. Imagine/envision how your reserve may need to clear all that, and effectively deploy in multiple scenarios. Including potentially even with your main still in the pack-tray.

Or not.

And just go for whatever is seemingly the "coolest" at the moment, and have at it.

Form, function, functionality - Doesn't any of that even enter into anyone's considerations anymore?

I'm not a rigger and it sounds like valid point, but all rigs manufactured and sold in the U.S. went through testing and approval process under TSO C23D. I presume they all comply and reserve opening time difference is minimal from rig to rig, isn't that so?

[demon4o7 0]

Thanks for your military service! And glad to hear you're getting your curve. I think I'm an R. I. Fan for life.

[normiss 622]

I had thought the same thing about my Javelin.
Every time I need to do any sort of maintenance on it - I hate it.

Hackey came off last year at Fitz. The d-bag does NOT need to be attached to the pilot chute kill line bridle, and I see no need to spend that much money to replace the entire assembly. I unstitched the d-bag from the bridle and installed a krazer zero-p pilot chute. Opens much nicer now. :)

So now I'm wanting a Skyhook ... and I'm fucked. I might be looking to replace my container.

hmpf

[Rookie120 0]

I ordered my new Javelin Odyssey back in november and it was delivered in less than 5 weeks. Too bad PD wasn't as fast. I just received my Optimum and main last week. I love the Javelin and will probably always buy nothing but.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[normiss 622]

Until your pilot chute needs replacing....

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Diezel,

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all rigs manufactured and sold in the U.S. went through testing and approval process under TSO C23D.

Simply not true. There are rigs on the market today that were certificated under C23b ( Mirage is one ) and under C23c ( Infinity is one ).

Just to clarify things,

JerryBaumchen

[FataMorgana 0]

This is just a general question out of curiosity. Textile (polyamides) used in the construction of parachutes are sensitive to temperatures in excess of 93oC. It is also estimated that a black panel in full sun could get up to 91oC if no paths other than radiation were available for cooling the panel. Could somebody explain to me, apart for the coolness factor , why making rigs with the black hardware would be a good idea. Flying the wing after deployment will most likely dissipate the unwanted heat from the rig. However, what about waiting for the loads in areas that are not always shaded or other unintentional sun exposures. I hope I am missing something here but the idea of black hardware sounds like asking for the unnecessary problems to me.

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

Stephen Hawking

[DocPop 1]

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Could somebody explain to me, apart for the coolness factor , why making rigs with the black hardware would be a good idea.

That is the reason it is done - because many people think it looks cool.

I have not noticed my hardware getting hot, but I do know that if you leave a spoon out in the sun it can get too hot to hold so I don't know that there is much more risk with black hardware than regular SS.

You don't like it - don't buy it! I do, so I did.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Diezel 0]

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Hi Diezel,

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all rigs manufactured and sold in the U.S. went through testing and approval process under TSO C23D.

Simply not true. There are rigs on the market today that were certificated under C23b ( Mirage is one ) and under C23c ( Infinity is one ).

Just to clarify things,

JerryBaumchen

can you please elaborate on this a little bit? Are some of those standard not as stringent as others? What's the difference in laymen terms?
Thanks

[faulk04 0]

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Hi Diezel,

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all rigs manufactured and sold in the U.S. went through testing and approval process under TSO C23D.

Simply not true. There are rigs on the market today that were certificated under C23b ( Mirage is one ) and under C23c ( Infinity is one ).

Just to clarify things,

JerryBaumchen

can you please elaborate on this a little bit? Are some of those standard not as stringent as others? What's the difference in laymen terms?
Thanks

TSO C23b (issued in 1949) refers to National Aerospace Standard (NAS) 804 for its performance standards and had Standard and Low Speed (under 150 MPH) category parachutes (there is no such category as "High Speed" although the language is quite common). NAS 804 was really a design standard (rather than performance standard) and because of the vagueness of the language regarding structural tests there were a number of parachutes of marginal strength certificated in Standard Category by using "creative testing methods" to pass the structural tests. A number of these canopies wouldn't have a prayer of passing the newer tests under C23c. It has also been reported that a 5,000 lb. shock load can be exceeded with small, very low porosity canopies at under 100 knots with less than 400 lb. suspended weight.

TSO C23c (issued 1984) refers to SAE Aerospace Standard (AS) 8015A for the minimum performance standards and has Categories A (130 KIAS at 225 lb.), B (150 KIAS at 254 lb.) and C (175 KIAS at 254 lb.). AS 8015A is a performance standard and as such, a much more relevant test program was implemented. Under C23c, approximately 64 drop tests are required as well as some human factors tests and other items. Other related regulations stipulate quality control system and facility requirements that must be met prior to the issuance of a TSO. For a new company without any existing TSO products, starting from scratch can be a daunting task and can be quite expensive and time consuming. And, as one might expect, the FAA takes a dim view of labeling products as TSO'd without going through all the hoops and this is a clear violation of the FAR's. Despite this, it has actually happened recently in Southern California.

TSO C23d was issued June 1, 1994 with SAE 8015b as the performance standard incorporated by reference. C23d allows for certification of an emergency parachute at any selected weight and airspeed combination as long as it exceeds the minimum of 220 lb. at 150 KEAS. The structural overload tests will be conducted at 120% of the maximum certificated operating weight and 120% of the maximum certificated pack opening speed. The minimum structural test will be 264 lb. at 180 KEAS.




I took this off a website so please correct it if is wrong

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi faulk,

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I took this off a website so please correct it if is wrong

I think that you did a commendable job.

I would take one exception: ". . . NAS 804 was really a design standard . . ."

I consider NAS 804 a performance standard; but I do see how it could be 'discussed.'

JerryBaumchen

PS) I spent 30 yrs working for the federal government enforcing US gov't technical specifications; we determined that there were only two types: Detail specifications and/or performance specifications.

[Diezel 0]

Thank you very much! Good stuff! Does this mean though that newer systems e.g. Mirage g4.1 don't have to be tested under latest standards and still be considered TSOed and legal to be sold in the U.S?

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Diezel,

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Does this mean though that newer systems e.g. Mirage g4.1 don't have to be tested under latest standards and still be considered TSOed and legal to be sold in the U.S?

That would be correct.

Once a TSO authorization is granted is it good forever unless surrendered by the grantee or revoked by the FAA.

JerryBaumchen

[Scrumpot 1]

Thar ya go. ...Now the munchkin's are startin' to put some of the puzzle pieces together! -

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Jvx 0]

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So lookjg for a new rig. Have jumped and had around 4 mirage containers. Started jumping an older infinity years ago... micron is OUT due to the 9 MONTH WAITING TIME!!! Might just stick with Mirage but damn can never get anyone to get back too me. pisses me off. Even just a quick email would be nice. So looked into Infinity. Not too familiar with them. What do people have to say about Infinity ?? Also have considered the Curve. But not with a $3000 price tag. Not even considering it anymore. ( unless they throw a new optimum 126 in) thanks guys. Just trying to get some opinions before i choose Friday.

hullo..new in the sport and i'm still renting gear until i get to a comfortable wing to fly. But i've heard alot of people rave and crave and swear to the Almighty that the Curve is the rig to end all rigs. Why isn't it worth the $3000?

Thanks

Its just NOT worth ths 3k price tag... I think cause its new and hot and ALOT of R&d went into it they have to recoup some $$$... I ve tried it on and its nice...Nothing over the top just nice. It kinda has a wide feel/look to it. As in it look like it covers your whole back.. Im gonna stick with Mirage. Imo they are a top tier rig. Always been good to me.

They aren't 3K, more like 2500 like many others. And to many, it is worth the price. Quotes from riggers I know: "By far the most comfortable rig I've ever had on", "Sandy knocked it out of the park with the Curv", "I'd buy it for the Bio-Yoke alone". To say definitively that "they aren't worth it", is just your opinion.

You seemed set on the Mirage from the start. This is more of a "Aren't Mirages teh awesumz" thread, than a genuine discussion of the merits of different rigs.

First of all on they site THEY SAY $2950 .. So lets clear that. True discounts kick in with dealers. But another reason you shouldnt make douche bag comments..its NOT a Pro mirage thread... I just put 50% down tonight on the curve... So lets get your mouth washed out with my bazinggg... Dont come on here acting like a fool. Keep that for your buddies on how bad ass you are cause you jump out of a plane:). It was simply a thread getting feedback. I looked into curve and decided that was the way im going. Kinda feel stupid now huh?