jtiflyer 0 #1 April 4, 2013 http://www.adventuresofabrokensoldier.com/1/post/2013/04/wed-apr-3-2013.html I am all for running a business, but above that I am 100% behind veterans or in front of them if the situation calls for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trev_S 0 #3 April 4, 2013 wow... If I ever visit that DZ I'll make sure to wear my flying spaghetti monster shirt ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #4 April 4, 2013 Quotehttp://www.adventuresofabrokensoldier.com/1/post/2013/04/wed-apr-3-2013.html I am all for running a business, but above that I am 100% behind veterans or in front of them if the situation calls for it. Have you contacted the DZ to check this out?? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deimian 43 #5 April 4, 2013 I have the feeling that I'll be crushed for this, but what the hell, I'll say it anyway. Why being a veteran is important in this case? If he was not a veteran would it be ok to impose him to cover his tattoo because somebody felt he was offending their religious believes? I completely support him, they shouldn't ask him to cover his tattoo, and I guess that this is the really important stuff. But I really don't get why people expect to be treated differently because they were in the military. Why so much emphasis on that? And why some/many people actually treats them differently? Enrolling in a job that doesn't require anything besides being physically healthy enough to go to kill people in other countries that are thousands of miles away is really a reason to be proud of? I would be proud of somebody that is willing to give his life to protect mine. But it look foolish to me to believe that an illiterate and ignorant poor soul with an AK47 can kill me from thousands of miles away. Especially if you keep in mind that if military *from any country* would be used just in defensive manner, this ignorant soul would not even know that my country existed. Now, knowing that many americans support unconditionally their military, whatever they do, and that many skydivers come from the military, I expect to be bashed for what I've said. But please, before charging against me, try to explain me why this is so important, especially in america. I really don't get it and I would like to understand. Maybe we all can learn something. Sorry for the offtopic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #6 April 4, 2013 I've hidden Deimian's post because it has nothing to do with skydiving and belongs in Speaker's Corner. I suspect this thread will not be able to stay out of politics/religion so I expect it will get moved, where a mod can then unhide it. Be aware people, the purpose of this forum and Speaker's Corner!Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deimian 43 #7 April 4, 2013 Quote I've hidden Deimian's post because it has nothing to do with skydiving and belongs in Speaker's Corner. I suspect this thread will not be able to stay out of politics/religion so I expect it will get moved, where a mod can then unhide it. Be aware people, the purpose of this forum and Speaker's Corner! True, well done. I'll think about writing it in the Speaker's Corner, but since the post is gone, and I'm too lazy to write and elaborate again, probably I won't write anything . Anyway, bad decision from the DZO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #8 April 4, 2013 "What kind of America do we live in where"... the kind where the $$$ rules. There was a team training spending a shed load of $$$. They were pissed by something. The DZO bent over backwards to keep them happy. Putting aside what they were pissed about and whether or not that was reasonable - how many times have we seen that behaviour before? Whose been bumped off a load for someone more 'important' (read is worth more $$$ to the DZ) before? Or found the entire lift manifested up next, that you've been waiting out weather hold for, is suddenly 2 loads back because the DZ can fill the first couple off the hold with the tandems? Anyone else been kicked off a 6am balloon because the team who arrive late just have to get on this one because team training starts at 7am and you'll just have to get the next one, oh the winds are up for that one, so sad. Plenty of examples of this attitude can be found without the religious context that could get this thread in the SC. DZ's are businesses. DZ's don't tend to make that much directly from our slots. Individual jumpers are the little guy and in the scheme of things often viewed as not particularly important. Visiting jumpers are the most vulnerable to this behaviour. We do fill loads however, create the atmosphere, pack, end up as staff and instructors. Without us there would be no DZ, just as much as there would be no DZ without the tandem or team cash cow. There needs to be balance and visiting jumpers who don't come back and don't send their friends there should not be overlooked. If a business wants to succeed, it should be after everyone's money, not just the high roller's money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #9 April 4, 2013 There is also a thread in Speaker's Corner. Normally I'd close this one but willing to leave it open a while to see if there are any valid non-political points such as mr2mk1g's.Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #10 April 4, 2013 There needs to be balance and visiting jumpers who don't come back and don't send their friends there should not be overlooked. Quote They aren't overlooked, they are prioritized. The DZ is in the business to make money period. Just like any other business. Go into a busy restaurant on a Saturday night...regulars & big spenders get a table a lot sooner than a solo out of towner. It is what it is. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #11 April 4, 2013 Quote There needs to be balance and visiting jumpers who don't come back and don't send their friends there should not be overlooked. Quote They aren't overlooked, they are prioritized. The DZ is in the business to make money period. Just like any other business. Go into a busy restaurant on a Saturday night...regulars & big spenders get a table a lot sooner than a solo out of towner. It is what it is. Exactly, ANY business, Ask them what the cost of ONE item is, then ask them what the cost of that same item is for the big customer who buys 2000 of them every month.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sharkey3432 0 #12 April 4, 2013 Big mistake from the DZ! Two points: 1: Surley the DZO knew this was going to be a PR nightmare, so why follow it through? 2: In the UK it's too cold to wear shorts however I would be spitting feathers if this happened to one our own soldiers or to my self. Sharkey. RED ON......GO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DocPop 1 #13 April 4, 2013 I sympathize with the DZ. This guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. That's where this guy threw his teddy out of the pram and started causing friction (quite apart from the fact that the tattoo is quite clearly a "fuck you" to Muslims). It seems like a case of DYKWIA and he wants special attention."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #14 April 4, 2013 QuoteThis guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #15 April 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteThis guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? I would. You're absolutely entitled to your offended opinion. and you are well within your rights to complain to Mgt. If they ask me to cover it up, I'll make my decision then, and stand by any consequences caused by it. Being a "growed arse adult" seems to be the most appropriate choice here, but alas so rarely seen as the chosen option.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #16 April 4, 2013 This brings to mind a time a few years back when I went out to Perris with a group of Brits for a couple of weeks. We had a weather front come in and having done March Field, USS Medway etc we went over to 6-flags for the day. We'd brought this girl with us to do AFF who we casually referred to as "the Russian hooker" as that's pretty much how she dressed, looked and generally acted. On this day she was sporting a super short skirt and crop-top which showed off her midriff. Bit slutty, but nothing that would be overly out of place in the UK. In the queue at 6-flags a staff member came over to us and told her that she had to put more clothes on or she would not be permitted entry. I think we found a poncho or something for her. Frankly, this is exactly the same scenario. Do this, to keep our other customers happy or we reserve the right to deny service. We Brits were gobsmacked and I've never seen anything like it happen in the UK... but hey, we were now in prudish and puritanical America where they keep the porn in the valley. If you've ever been to Cardiff on a Friday or Saturday evening you'll know what comes out of the valleys over here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #17 April 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteThis guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? That's apple to dump-trucks. IF you were a DZO and several customers were offended by what in essence is a racist tattoo aimed at them...would you request the wearer of that tat cover it up? Heck I've seen DZO's ask skydivers to remove 'Blue Skies Black Death' tee-shirts because they felt it was a negative expression. It's JUST business. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #18 April 4, 2013 Quote Heck I've seen DZO's ask skydivers to remove 'Blue Skies Black Death' tee-shirts because they felt it was a negative expression. It's JUST business. Yup, I was asked to remove a t-shirt that a DZO considered offensive. The DZO handed me a free t-shirt and asked me to change. I started to argue, then bit my tongue and said "Okay, no problem" and changed, because I realized it wasn't my DZ, so it wasn't my rules. This isn't a free speech issue. It's a business decision. You don't have to like it. You can take your business elsewhere. You can decide based on this one that you never want to give Lake Wales any business. That's all cool, that's your right, just as they have the right not to do business with you for any reason that doesn't break a law."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #19 April 4, 2013 Quote Quote Quote This guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? That's apple to dump-trucks. IF you were a DZO and several customers were offended by what in essence is a racist tattoo aimed at them...would you request the wearer of that tat cover it up? Heck I've seen DZO's ask skydivers to remove 'Blue Skies Black Death' tee-shirts because they felt it was a negative expression. It's JUST business. Ill be sporting my FOAMY Tshirt. emblazoned with "NOTHING MATTERS, NOBODY CARES, GO KILL YOURSELF" (On the back it has 21 reason why you should) Lets see how many i can offend with that You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EppyNephrine 0 #20 April 4, 2013 I would first off like to shake his hand and thank him for risking his life to defend my quality of life. With that being said, one of the rights that he defended was that of a free capitalist economy, and the DZ's right to mitigate conflict between patrons on her premises. Do I necessarily agree that asking him to cover up the tattoo is the ethical thing to do? No. But is it her right to be able to? Yes. Also, in the article when he states "After beating around the bush for a few minutes entertaining me..." paints the picture of a skydive punk trying to verbally exacerbate the situation for amusement. Without knowing how the conversation went exactly, I'd be willing to bet that a different choice of words could have led to a completely different outcome. Remember, there's always two sides to a story. Before you go sending hateful messages to the DZO, keep in mind that the story may be completely different from what the soldier painted. Otherwise, you're no better than Fox news. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hillson 0 #21 April 4, 2013 Something about this doesn't pass the smell test, IMHO. If you spend any amount of time at a turbine DZ in FL you're going to run into these guys. I've always found them to be pretty nice guys if a bit insular. Which makes sense...many don't speak English that well and they're here to jump, jump, jump. And they do...especially in the dog days of summer in FL (when it sucks) they keep the planes turning. The biggest complaint I hear is that their idea of a "now / get it on" call is "manana." But these guys are always back to back or doing quads before they take a break. What is another two minutes? *yawn* And those that speak some English will sit there and chat with you while you're eating pulled pork or drinking a beer. It isn't like these guys are some sort of easily culturally offended milquetoasts or something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dclabounty 0 #22 April 4, 2013 This is what I posted on his blog and a friends FB page who shared the link with their outrage. "While I disagree with the DZ...They are a private business and had every right to ask him to cover it up. Probably a smart business move on their part as US dropzones get a lot of income when groups from other countries stay an extended period of time and jump. "What kind of America do we live in" he asks? The kind where personal rights are alive and well...the first amendment only limits the government not private parties. BTW I'm still on active duty, have multiple deployments and have taken an IED blast as well so don't try and make this about "me not knowing what it's like"." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #23 April 4, 2013 We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, it's the American way.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #24 April 4, 2013 Quote There needs to be balance and visiting jumpers who don't come back and don't send their friends there should not be overlooked. Quote They aren't overlooked, they are prioritized. The DZ is in the business to make money period. Just like any other business. Go into a busy restaurant on a Saturday night...regulars & big spenders get a table a lot sooner than a solo out of towner. It is what it is. This. He was given an option, apparently his desire to display his tattoo is stronger than his desire to skydive. This isn't a religious discussion at all, it's simple economics. Money talks and gets higher consideration by most businesses or they don't stay in busines s long. When "Team Infidel" is spending thousands a week they will get primary consideration for their whims. It's called capitalism.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites potatoman 0 #25 April 4, 2013 I got a tattoo that says: "SHUTUP AND JUMP"You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is. Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum" Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD. 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Squeak 17 #11 April 4, 2013 Quote There needs to be balance and visiting jumpers who don't come back and don't send their friends there should not be overlooked. Quote They aren't overlooked, they are prioritized. The DZ is in the business to make money period. Just like any other business. Go into a busy restaurant on a Saturday night...regulars & big spenders get a table a lot sooner than a solo out of towner. It is what it is. Exactly, ANY business, Ask them what the cost of ONE item is, then ask them what the cost of that same item is for the big customer who buys 2000 of them every month.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sharkey3432 0 #12 April 4, 2013 Big mistake from the DZ! Two points: 1: Surley the DZO knew this was going to be a PR nightmare, so why follow it through? 2: In the UK it's too cold to wear shorts however I would be spitting feathers if this happened to one our own soldiers or to my self. Sharkey. RED ON......GO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DocPop 1 #13 April 4, 2013 I sympathize with the DZ. This guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. That's where this guy threw his teddy out of the pram and started causing friction (quite apart from the fact that the tattoo is quite clearly a "fuck you" to Muslims). It seems like a case of DYKWIA and he wants special attention."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #14 April 4, 2013 QuoteThis guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #15 April 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteThis guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? I would. You're absolutely entitled to your offended opinion. and you are well within your rights to complain to Mgt. If they ask me to cover it up, I'll make my decision then, and stand by any consequences caused by it. Being a "growed arse adult" seems to be the most appropriate choice here, but alas so rarely seen as the chosen option.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #16 April 4, 2013 This brings to mind a time a few years back when I went out to Perris with a group of Brits for a couple of weeks. We had a weather front come in and having done March Field, USS Medway etc we went over to 6-flags for the day. We'd brought this girl with us to do AFF who we casually referred to as "the Russian hooker" as that's pretty much how she dressed, looked and generally acted. On this day she was sporting a super short skirt and crop-top which showed off her midriff. Bit slutty, but nothing that would be overly out of place in the UK. In the queue at 6-flags a staff member came over to us and told her that she had to put more clothes on or she would not be permitted entry. I think we found a poncho or something for her. Frankly, this is exactly the same scenario. Do this, to keep our other customers happy or we reserve the right to deny service. We Brits were gobsmacked and I've never seen anything like it happen in the UK... but hey, we were now in prudish and puritanical America where they keep the porn in the valley. If you've ever been to Cardiff on a Friday or Saturday evening you'll know what comes out of the valleys over here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #17 April 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteThis guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? That's apple to dump-trucks. IF you were a DZO and several customers were offended by what in essence is a racist tattoo aimed at them...would you request the wearer of that tat cover it up? Heck I've seen DZO's ask skydivers to remove 'Blue Skies Black Death' tee-shirts because they felt it was a negative expression. It's JUST business. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #18 April 4, 2013 Quote Heck I've seen DZO's ask skydivers to remove 'Blue Skies Black Death' tee-shirts because they felt it was a negative expression. It's JUST business. Yup, I was asked to remove a t-shirt that a DZO considered offensive. The DZO handed me a free t-shirt and asked me to change. I started to argue, then bit my tongue and said "Okay, no problem" and changed, because I realized it wasn't my DZ, so it wasn't my rules. This isn't a free speech issue. It's a business decision. You don't have to like it. You can take your business elsewhere. You can decide based on this one that you never want to give Lake Wales any business. That's all cool, that's your right, just as they have the right not to do business with you for any reason that doesn't break a law."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #19 April 4, 2013 Quote Quote Quote This guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? That's apple to dump-trucks. IF you were a DZO and several customers were offended by what in essence is a racist tattoo aimed at them...would you request the wearer of that tat cover it up? Heck I've seen DZO's ask skydivers to remove 'Blue Skies Black Death' tee-shirts because they felt it was a negative expression. It's JUST business. Ill be sporting my FOAMY Tshirt. emblazoned with "NOTHING MATTERS, NOBODY CARES, GO KILL YOURSELF" (On the back it has 21 reason why you should) Lets see how many i can offend with that You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EppyNephrine 0 #20 April 4, 2013 I would first off like to shake his hand and thank him for risking his life to defend my quality of life. With that being said, one of the rights that he defended was that of a free capitalist economy, and the DZ's right to mitigate conflict between patrons on her premises. Do I necessarily agree that asking him to cover up the tattoo is the ethical thing to do? No. But is it her right to be able to? Yes. Also, in the article when he states "After beating around the bush for a few minutes entertaining me..." paints the picture of a skydive punk trying to verbally exacerbate the situation for amusement. Without knowing how the conversation went exactly, I'd be willing to bet that a different choice of words could have led to a completely different outcome. Remember, there's always two sides to a story. Before you go sending hateful messages to the DZO, keep in mind that the story may be completely different from what the soldier painted. Otherwise, you're no better than Fox news. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hillson 0 #21 April 4, 2013 Something about this doesn't pass the smell test, IMHO. If you spend any amount of time at a turbine DZ in FL you're going to run into these guys. I've always found them to be pretty nice guys if a bit insular. Which makes sense...many don't speak English that well and they're here to jump, jump, jump. And they do...especially in the dog days of summer in FL (when it sucks) they keep the planes turning. The biggest complaint I hear is that their idea of a "now / get it on" call is "manana." But these guys are always back to back or doing quads before they take a break. What is another two minutes? *yawn* And those that speak some English will sit there and chat with you while you're eating pulled pork or drinking a beer. It isn't like these guys are some sort of easily culturally offended milquetoasts or something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dclabounty 0 #22 April 4, 2013 This is what I posted on his blog and a friends FB page who shared the link with their outrage. "While I disagree with the DZ...They are a private business and had every right to ask him to cover it up. Probably a smart business move on their part as US dropzones get a lot of income when groups from other countries stay an extended period of time and jump. "What kind of America do we live in" he asks? The kind where personal rights are alive and well...the first amendment only limits the government not private parties. BTW I'm still on active duty, have multiple deployments and have taken an IED blast as well so don't try and make this about "me not knowing what it's like"." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #23 April 4, 2013 We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, it's the American way.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #24 April 4, 2013 Quote There needs to be balance and visiting jumpers who don't come back and don't send their friends there should not be overlooked. Quote They aren't overlooked, they are prioritized. The DZ is in the business to make money period. Just like any other business. Go into a busy restaurant on a Saturday night...regulars & big spenders get a table a lot sooner than a solo out of towner. It is what it is. This. He was given an option, apparently his desire to display his tattoo is stronger than his desire to skydive. This isn't a religious discussion at all, it's simple economics. Money talks and gets higher consideration by most businesses or they don't stay in busines s long. When "Team Infidel" is spending thousands a week they will get primary consideration for their whims. It's called capitalism.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites potatoman 0 #25 April 4, 2013 I got a tattoo that says: "SHUTUP AND JUMP"You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is. Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum" Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 1 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Sharkey3432 0 #12 April 4, 2013 Big mistake from the DZ! Two points: 1: Surley the DZO knew this was going to be a PR nightmare, so why follow it through? 2: In the UK it's too cold to wear shorts however I would be spitting feathers if this happened to one our own soldiers or to my self. Sharkey. RED ON......GO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #13 April 4, 2013 I sympathize with the DZ. This guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. That's where this guy threw his teddy out of the pram and started causing friction (quite apart from the fact that the tattoo is quite clearly a "fuck you" to Muslims). It seems like a case of DYKWIA and he wants special attention."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #14 April 4, 2013 QuoteThis guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #15 April 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteThis guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? I would. You're absolutely entitled to your offended opinion. and you are well within your rights to complain to Mgt. If they ask me to cover it up, I'll make my decision then, and stand by any consequences caused by it. Being a "growed arse adult" seems to be the most appropriate choice here, but alas so rarely seen as the chosen option.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #16 April 4, 2013 This brings to mind a time a few years back when I went out to Perris with a group of Brits for a couple of weeks. We had a weather front come in and having done March Field, USS Medway etc we went over to 6-flags for the day. We'd brought this girl with us to do AFF who we casually referred to as "the Russian hooker" as that's pretty much how she dressed, looked and generally acted. On this day she was sporting a super short skirt and crop-top which showed off her midriff. Bit slutty, but nothing that would be overly out of place in the UK. In the queue at 6-flags a staff member came over to us and told her that she had to put more clothes on or she would not be permitted entry. I think we found a poncho or something for her. Frankly, this is exactly the same scenario. Do this, to keep our other customers happy or we reserve the right to deny service. We Brits were gobsmacked and I've never seen anything like it happen in the UK... but hey, we were now in prudish and puritanical America where they keep the porn in the valley. If you've ever been to Cardiff on a Friday or Saturday evening you'll know what comes out of the valleys over here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #17 April 4, 2013 QuoteQuoteThis guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? That's apple to dump-trucks. IF you were a DZO and several customers were offended by what in essence is a racist tattoo aimed at them...would you request the wearer of that tat cover it up? Heck I've seen DZO's ask skydivers to remove 'Blue Skies Black Death' tee-shirts because they felt it was a negative expression. It's JUST business. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #18 April 4, 2013 Quote Heck I've seen DZO's ask skydivers to remove 'Blue Skies Black Death' tee-shirts because they felt it was a negative expression. It's JUST business. Yup, I was asked to remove a t-shirt that a DZO considered offensive. The DZO handed me a free t-shirt and asked me to change. I started to argue, then bit my tongue and said "Okay, no problem" and changed, because I realized it wasn't my DZ, so it wasn't my rules. This isn't a free speech issue. It's a business decision. You don't have to like it. You can take your business elsewhere. You can decide based on this one that you never want to give Lake Wales any business. That's all cool, that's your right, just as they have the right not to do business with you for any reason that doesn't break a law."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #19 April 4, 2013 Quote Quote Quote This guy has a tattoo that is offensive to other jumpers, and the DZ is trying to run a business. "Cover it up" is a reasonable request and the right solution. I find your tattoo offensive. You don't have enough years in sport to be wearing that. If I were a DZO and I asked you to cover it up at my dz, would you feel the same as you do about "this guy"? That's apple to dump-trucks. IF you were a DZO and several customers were offended by what in essence is a racist tattoo aimed at them...would you request the wearer of that tat cover it up? Heck I've seen DZO's ask skydivers to remove 'Blue Skies Black Death' tee-shirts because they felt it was a negative expression. It's JUST business. Ill be sporting my FOAMY Tshirt. emblazoned with "NOTHING MATTERS, NOBODY CARES, GO KILL YOURSELF" (On the back it has 21 reason why you should) Lets see how many i can offend with that You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EppyNephrine 0 #20 April 4, 2013 I would first off like to shake his hand and thank him for risking his life to defend my quality of life. With that being said, one of the rights that he defended was that of a free capitalist economy, and the DZ's right to mitigate conflict between patrons on her premises. Do I necessarily agree that asking him to cover up the tattoo is the ethical thing to do? No. But is it her right to be able to? Yes. Also, in the article when he states "After beating around the bush for a few minutes entertaining me..." paints the picture of a skydive punk trying to verbally exacerbate the situation for amusement. Without knowing how the conversation went exactly, I'd be willing to bet that a different choice of words could have led to a completely different outcome. Remember, there's always two sides to a story. Before you go sending hateful messages to the DZO, keep in mind that the story may be completely different from what the soldier painted. Otherwise, you're no better than Fox news. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hillson 0 #21 April 4, 2013 Something about this doesn't pass the smell test, IMHO. If you spend any amount of time at a turbine DZ in FL you're going to run into these guys. I've always found them to be pretty nice guys if a bit insular. Which makes sense...many don't speak English that well and they're here to jump, jump, jump. And they do...especially in the dog days of summer in FL (when it sucks) they keep the planes turning. The biggest complaint I hear is that their idea of a "now / get it on" call is "manana." But these guys are always back to back or doing quads before they take a break. What is another two minutes? *yawn* And those that speak some English will sit there and chat with you while you're eating pulled pork or drinking a beer. It isn't like these guys are some sort of easily culturally offended milquetoasts or something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dclabounty 0 #22 April 4, 2013 This is what I posted on his blog and a friends FB page who shared the link with their outrage. "While I disagree with the DZ...They are a private business and had every right to ask him to cover it up. Probably a smart business move on their part as US dropzones get a lot of income when groups from other countries stay an extended period of time and jump. "What kind of America do we live in" he asks? The kind where personal rights are alive and well...the first amendment only limits the government not private parties. BTW I'm still on active duty, have multiple deployments and have taken an IED blast as well so don't try and make this about "me not knowing what it's like"." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #23 April 4, 2013 We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, it's the American way.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #24 April 4, 2013 Quote There needs to be balance and visiting jumpers who don't come back and don't send their friends there should not be overlooked. Quote They aren't overlooked, they are prioritized. The DZ is in the business to make money period. Just like any other business. Go into a busy restaurant on a Saturday night...regulars & big spenders get a table a lot sooner than a solo out of towner. It is what it is. This. He was given an option, apparently his desire to display his tattoo is stronger than his desire to skydive. This isn't a religious discussion at all, it's simple economics. Money talks and gets higher consideration by most businesses or they don't stay in busines s long. When "Team Infidel" is spending thousands a week they will get primary consideration for their whims. It's called capitalism.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites potatoman 0 #25 April 4, 2013 I got a tattoo that says: "SHUTUP AND JUMP"You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is. Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum" Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 1 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
potatoman 0 #25 April 4, 2013 I got a tattoo that says: "SHUTUP AND JUMP"You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is. Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum" Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
