Skydive/Paragliding Crossover- any interest?

[jnick1206 0]

I know a lot of skydivers are all about getting down as quick as possible. I actually was a parglider pilot prior to getting my A liccense and enjoy a VERY long canopy ride. Any one else out there into this concept? My long term aspiration would be to create a crossover rig- a harness that would be comfortable to be in for an hour or two and a main that would help this happen. Pull right out the door and do a real Cross Country (10-15 miles at least).

[NewGuy2005 51]

Disclaimer: I've done very little skydiving and even less paragliding so what I will say are just the ideas of an inexperienced jumper. I couldn't tell you if they are safe or not, but I'm sure there are people that can.

This topic has come up several times in the past with varying results. Most people focus on methods of deploying an actual paragliding canopy. I have not seen that idea developed to the point of being practical.

When I was jumping, the idea I had was to focus on attaining a very low sink rate rather than a high glide rate. In order to do that, I was thinking that a person could jump a very large zero porosity skydiving canopy. I'm not sure how big you can get them, but some tandem canopies are pretty big.

You may not be able to achieve a big glide rate, but, if you could get your sink rate low enough, you would be able to gain altitude in thermals.

That would leave you with the problem of getting comfortable in a skydiving harness, but I bet that could be overcome.

[Quagmirian 40]

It'd be nice to get a civilian version of this.

[NewGuy2005 51]

It would be nice, but I don't think those guys will even talk to sport jumpers.

[NewGuy2005 51]

Can anyone tell me if a tandem rig can be modified to function like a sport rig?

[jnick1206 0]

That's pretty much what I'm thinking about (the Hi-glide system). My experience has been finding good launch sites for paragliding, depending on what part of the country you live in. But skydiving has enough following that there is usually a DZ close by to utilize. Collapsing the wingtips really just makes it more like a regular main- totally kills the glide ratio.

[GoneCodFishing 23]

What i would really like, rather than sitting under canopy for an hour, would be PG type acro performance on a skydiving canopy.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

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It'd be nice to get a civilian version of this.

I was under the impression one of those companies would sell at least some of their canopies to civilians. I'm not sure your dropzone would particularly appreciate you hanging around in the sky for a couple hours.

If I wanted to go paragliding, I'd go paragliding. I do enjoy canopy flight, and have done several high pulls since I started. I just hang out in a holding pattern above the landing area for the 10 minutes or so it takes me to get down. I suspect I'll be doing a lot more once summer rolls around -- the one in September was... brisk...

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

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That's pretty much what I'm thinking about (the Hi-glide system). My experience has been finding good launch sites for paragliding, depending on what part of the country you live in. But skydiving has enough following that there is usually a DZ close by to utilize. Collapsing the wingtips really just makes it more like a regular main- totally kills the glide ratio.

I took hang gliding training in North Carolina back in the 90's. My instructor had a rig he build from a motorcycle wheel. They'd find a low-traffic airstrip and tow the glider behind a pick-up truck, playing the glider out on steel cable from the rig he built. Kind of like flying a really big kite. With a pick-up truck. I wonder if something similar would work for launching paragliders from traditionally paraglider-unfriendly areas? He had some safety stuff built in that would break away and allow the glider to be landed if it started turning the wrong way or the cable snagged up or something.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[JohnSherman 1]

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Can anyone tell me if a tandem rig can be modified to function like a sport rig?

Yes, it can. Just remove the Drogue bridle harness and use the drogue like a throw-out. We do it all the time. Oh, that only on a Racer Tandem.

Not only that but the Firebolt 396 will glide with the best of them. Recient testing demonstrated a 5 to 1 glide ratio with a greater wing loading than the HG385 was tested with.
Not only that you can direct bag static line it.
See attached Polar Curve which defines the Glide Slope:
[inline Polar_Curve_FB396_Solo_2013.jpg]

[NewGuy2005 51]

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I took hang gliding training in North Carolina back in the 90's. My instructor had a rig he build from a motorcycle wheel. They'd find a low-traffic airstrip and tow the glider behind a pick-up truck, playing the glider out on steel cable from the rig he built. Kind of like flying a really big kite. With a pick-up truck. I wonder if something similar would work for launching paragliders from traditionally paraglider-unfriendly areas? He had some safety stuff built in that would break away and allow the glider to be landed if it started turning the wrong way or the cable snagged up or something.

Yes. that's how I did most of the paragliding I did. Towing is great, but it requires a certain kind of geography as well. You have to have a straight road that is several thousand feet long with no power lines, landing areas along the entire length, etc. You would be surprised at how difficult it is to find all of those attributes.

[mkael 0]

I am not a skydiver and there are probably more experienced pg people here as well. But hey

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I wonder if something similar would work for launching paragliders from traditionally paraglider-unfriendly areas? He had some safety stuff built in that would break away and allow the glider to be landed if it started turning the wrong way or the cable snagged up or something.

Towing paragliders is the standard way going up in flat areas. It works really well. Specific training is required. Trying out some random ancient paraglider/parachute found in someones garage on a random field is a very bad and very unhealthy. There is much specific information about this.

I think there could be demand for these hybrid things. But a lot is working against it too. Many compromises would have to be made. Maybe it would be just for gliding away , but I would hope for some mild xc too. Acro people have their own stuff too. Skydiving kit is very complicated stuff with 3-ring releases and complicated high speed reserve systems.I would rather fly my pg somewhere else than above an active dz. Land far out somewhere else. So doubt the majority of current pg pilots will be interested.

Hanging in skydiving harnesses for a while can get damn uncomfortable real fast. They are really bad for weight shifting with the attachment points above the shoulders. A comfortable seat with adequate back protection would be really nice. One would have jump that out of a typical skydiving plane too. The hanging position typical for skydiving harnesses is tiresome and causes lots and lots of drag.

The glide ratio is very important , but not the only factor. One has to maneuver the wing easily too. Eg circle slowly in a column of rising air. Ability to weight shift and low brake force is good. And if one gets clues trough the wing from the air to sense where to find these. That more or less might mean a wing which people would call finicky. So the handling aspects of the wing are really important.

[Bluhdow 31]

Can't you just d-bag a paraglider off of a balloon or heli?

No interference with normal DZ operations, no need for modifications/inventions, no need to reinvent the wheel.

I don't feel like browsing youtube to find a bunch of examples, but I've definitely seen it done.

Apex BASE
#1816

[Calvin19 0]

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I know a lot of skydivers are all about getting down as quick as possible. I actually was a parglider pilot prior to getting my A liccense and enjoy a VERY long canopy ride. Any one else out there into this concept? My long term aspiration would be to create a crossover rig- a harness that would be comfortable to be in for an hour or two and a main that would help this happen. Pull right out the door and do a real Cross Country (10-15 miles at least).

Hi friends, I have deployed my paragliders several times from full altitude. (8-16m Speed gliders, 18m acro glider, and 24m XC glider[with >10/1 glide]). legally, using heavily modified paragliding harnesses and custom deployment gear. Also while wearing a complete skydive rig for legal and safety reasons. The logistics of doing it are literally and figuratively heavy.

The legal issues are a little muddy, exiting over property where you have permission, airspace clearance, etc. Also, you are in the airspace where your jump plane may be climbing up for another load. It's a high pull that lasts an hour.

[NewGuy2005 51]

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Can't you just d-bag a paraglider off of a balloon or heli?

No interference with normal DZ operations, no need for modifications/inventions, no need to reinvent the wheel.

I don't feel like browsing youtube to find a bunch of examples, but I've definitely seen it done.

I've seen it on Youtube. Appears to work OK. The problem is balloons and helis are not always available.

[mr2mk1g 10]

One thing to keep in mind is that the moment you start chucking stuff out of airplanes FAA rules become important.

If you're thinking of building a harness therefore it's going to have to be TSO'ed and have a certified reserve attached for starters. That takes it a long way from something you can knock up in the garage or even have a friendly rigger build for you.

[mkael 0]

I would be interested it was an option for me to go to the local dz and take a ride to altitude and do a hop and hop from there. The pilot could maybe make an small extra leg . I would be willing to pay extra for the inconvenience. I would float heavy in the brakes downwind faraway and land somewhere. If the tech is even halfway decent one would have a lot of options to look for lift further away. I know this has been thought of tried many times before. But even I like this concept and thought about it after my first jump already.

Typical paragliders might be 260 to 300 feet in skydive lingo. And there is the option to go smaller. Only slightly larger by numbers than what you put students under. But parachutes are built stronger to withstand the opening forces. Doubt the size is a real problem. Anyway there is the option to go smaller. Then there are those recent single skin paragliders. Ozone xxlite and Adrenaline batlite (I want to know how these behave in turbulence btw). Those are similar to some old age parachute from the 70s afaik? So that would be one option to explore?

Paragliders get better all the time. Newer models have a lot less lines than older ones. This is nice one gets less drag. Especially the max speed benefits from that. I have very limited skydiving experience , but I looked at a fairly recent PD canopy Pulse. I use that just as an example, I have never jumped one. It also might have less lines than some earlier parachutes. If one put up a more elliptical planform and increased the aspect ratio a little. Only considering that , going a little in that direction would make that look more like a paraglider. it is not like there are literally worlds apart from a fairly typical beginner to intermediate pg good enough for xc It would interest me how that would fly.

Old age paragliders used to look very much like parachutes of their time. Now it seems parachutes are slightly beginning to look like paragliders a little more. At least visually the tiny swooping machines look more like pg wings than the rectangular canopies. The most striking difference seems to be the leading edges and the rolled cigar looks. At least the leading edge tunnels with the Pulse are slightly more pg looking than what was typical before but overall has a strong rolled cigar look. Elliptical is a word often used in the skydiving world. People in skydiving are more vary of anything elliptical. Altough even student beginner pg wings look to be more rounded and elliptical than anything in the skydiving world. It has caused some spiral issues with some more hot wings very recently. I don't know how that affects parachute openings and deployment. Maybe somekind of tailgate? could be an option here?

Food used speed systems are extremely common on pg wings. (uses the feet to shorten the a-lines to adjust aoa). The trim is flatter for pg wings out of the box afaik. Somekind of trimmer system could work here. I don't have any idea how that makes a difference with parachute openings. How do those reflex type wings open btw? I know newer speed flying wings are like that?

[Davemon 0]

Ive been thinking about deploying my paragliger out of a bag from the passenger slot of a tandem jump should be very doable.

[Calvin19 0]

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Ive been thinking about deploying my paragliger out of a bag from the passenger slot of a tandem jump should be very doable.

Done that a few times. I have made a couple freefall deployable sit harnesses and Dbags, and have done Direct bags with my paragliders and speed gliders.

[Andy9o8 0]

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something you can knock up in the garage

http://art-canyon.com/motivational/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/street-rod-creeper-doll.jpg

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

There is that; Even 10 minutes on a high pull can get pretty uncomfortable. I always have to kick my legs out to make sure they're still getting circulation. If I could stay up longer I'd probably be tired of it in 15-20 minutes and come down anyway.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[Beatnik 2]

I have been jumping a paraglider for several years out of plane with a system I developed. So it can be done. I have had hang time of just under an hour from altitude. I am not going to go into great detail of my system or post photos of it. But it can be used for hop and pops or freefall, even going terminal. I have used quite a few times out of the king air.

I have about 40-50 jumps on my system with never any damage or indication of damage to the canopy. One of the things I think is the best part about my system is it doesn't require any modification to your harness or a special harness. You can use a regular H/C and just attach a few things that are removable.

Using an actual paraglider has made it possible to achieve distances far surpassing anything that a regular skydiving canopy could achieve. Your 10-15 mile cross country goal in reality is nothing. I was doing that to start and finding myself over top of the dropzone at 6000'. There are a lot of other complications with using a system like this because of having someone hang around for some time. Last year I got out of the plane at 3500' everyone else went up to 13500'. I watched them jump, open and land then I landed. Without coordinating this well and knowing the traffic in the area, it can be quite dangerous.

Anyways, it can be done and has been done.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

Yeah anything that can get lift can fly for a while. One day back in the 90's I got up a little late for a hang gliding lesson and drove a couple hours to the runway they were doing their tow operations out of. I showed up around noon and said "I'm ready for my lesson!" but the instructor had just got a high performance glider and before I arrived he'd towed up to 1500 feet, caught a thermal to 7900 feet and flew 40 miles to Wilmington.

He landed at the Wilmington international airport -- radioed the tower for clearance and everything! This was back before 9/11 and they didn't get too bent out of shape about it, but he had to file some paperwork with the FAA promising not to do that again or something.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?