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Downsizing too fast?

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I think I already know the answer to this, but I'm a noob and want a second opinion.
I recently got my A and I'm still jumping a 210. I'm looking to get my own gear and I'm currently looking at a complete rig in the classifieds that's a 170. I weigh about 170.
I'm assuming going from a 210 to 170 is too much too soon. Am I right or is it manageable?
Thanks

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It's ok I got this guys.

Ask your instructors/coaches/s&to what you should be flying.

If you have to ask then in most cases yes.

You will want to be at or better yet below a 1:1 wing loading, that means the weight of all your gear yourself and breakfast needs to not be over your canopy size in sq ft.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

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Probably manageable.

How do you feel about "probably" when it's your life/ability to walk/jump again that's at stake?

That's the decision you have to make.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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nah, it's too big...

as a new skydiver you want to get a canopy thats smaller and easier to pack.

my suggestion woulf be at least a sub 120sqft

possibaly a katana?

you'll love that canopy and really enjoy the thrill of landing it!

Got for it brother!!
*IF AT FIRST YOU DONT SUCCEED... SKYDIVING IS NOT FOR YOU!!!*

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nah, it's too big...

as a new skydiver you want to get a canopy thats smaller and easier to pack.

my suggestion woulf be at least a sub 120sqft

possibaly a katana?

you'll love that canopy and really enjoy the thrill of landing it!

Got for it brother!!



Also make sure it has front riser dive loops! Because doing a 270 turn before landing is the only way to properly fly that baby!

SoFPiDaRF!

(On a more serious note: Fly whatever you know you can fly safely. There's no harm in going for a larger canopy. Also try out different canopies and different sizes. Maybe you feel a 170 is way too fast for you, and want to go for a 190 or 210. Maybe even the 190 is too feisty. The only way to find out is to chat with your instructor and try it out.)

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I wouldn't feel comfortable making that big a jump all at once. It seems like your eyes get used to landing at a certain speed. The old guys call it sight picture. I'm at 100 jumps and just now getting comfortable jumping a 230 (I'm 223 -- 250 out the door with the gear on.) If I'd gone straight to the 230, it'd have felt freakishly fast to me. I'm not planning to go any lower for the foreseeable future.

Does your dropzone have interim gear you could use to step down to that size? Your best bet is to work with an instructor to do it safely. You could probably still get that gear, if you think that's where you're going to stop, just work your way down to it safely.
I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

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I think I already know the answer to this, but I'm a noob and want a second opinion.
I recently got my A and I'm still jumping a 210. I'm looking to get my own gear and I'm currently looking at a complete rig in the classifieds that's a 170. I weigh about 170.
I'm assuming going from a 210 to 170 is too much too soon. Am I right or is it manageable?
Thanks



I got over 100 jumps and loading my canopy slighly over 1:1.2.
It's really a matter of personal preference in addition to absolut maximum loadings at a given experiene level.

I would not suggest to go much over 1:1 if you didn't try it and felt comfortable with.

Many experienced jumpers told me to go for a 170 which would have been a 1:1.38 WL. WAY to aggressive for a beginner IMHO.

stay safe, have phun ;)

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I think I already know the answer to this, but I'm a noob and want a second opinion.
I recently got my A and I'm still jumping a 210. I'm looking to get my own gear and I'm currently looking at a complete rig in the classifieds that's a 170. I weigh about 170.
I'm assuming going from a 210 to 170 is too much too soon. Am I right or is it manageable?
Thanks



I weigh 165. I would have went down to a 190 if it was a good deal and a good fit. I found a good deal and a good fit in a 210. I plan to wear it out.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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WHat I would do before anything (What I did do) Which by any means isn't the best way of doing it but it worked for me .. I did a few jumps on the 260 ( I was 210 out the door) Jumped down to a 220 (my biggest downsize that I could feel) Did about 15 jumps on that and tried a friends pd 190 he wasn't using (F-111) Super docile really crappy flare.. From there I tested out a friends spectre 170 (Fairly docile 7 cell 170) I wanted to see how I could handle that size under a docile canopy... If you're testing out on downsizing be very conservative and don't get too far ahead of yourself.. It's better to have been glad you didn't do it then wish you did.. No harm in taking your time besides what you see at the DZ with sub 100 canopies ... Anyways do what you're comfortable with but my suggestion is to test out (not buy) in smaller incrememnts if you have the option to do so ... from a spectre I went up to a 9 cell stilleto 170 much different characteristics and flew that for about 40 jumps or so .. and from there I moved on .. Try things out in small increments because noone likes the asshole that pounds in on the runway with borrowed gear ...

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I think I already know the answer to this, but I'm a noob and want a second opinion.
I recently got my A and I'm still jumping a 210. I'm looking to get my own gear and I'm currently looking at a complete rig in the classifieds that's a 170. I weigh about 170.
I'm assuming going from a 210 to 170 is too much too soon. Am I right or is it manageable?
Thanks



Serious answer:

Generally, 2 size jumps isn't recommended. Not that it can't be done, but it isn't considered a good idea.

Have you read Brian Germain's Downsizing chart?
It has a good jump number/minimum size chart. It also has a good article on canopy skills (it's a sticky in the Canopy Control forum).

Have you read Billvon's "Downsizing Checklist?
It has a list of skills that you should be able to do before downsizing (it's in the safety articles).

Those are 2 good places to start if you want to know if you are ok to downsize.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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be careful not to let "an ad in the classifieds" lead directly to the decision of WHAT gear to consider.


better to decide on a size,,, narrow it down to 2 or 3 Models in THAT size,,, and THEN go through the ads or even better, put out feelers @ your DZ to finalize your options.....Plus your instructors might then be able to offer input.. BEFORE you commit $$$$ to anything " from out of town" ...

studying the proven downsize recommendations is the first step in deciding on a size...

jmy

a 3914
d 12122

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>I'm assuming going from a 210 to 170 is too much too soon. Am I right or is it manageable?

In one jump - yes, it's too fast.

If you are 100% comfortable on the 210, then borrow someone's 190 and put 20 or so jumps on it. If you are 100% comfortable on THAT then the 170 might be a good idea. (And by 100% comfortable I mean able to land it anywhere you want, be able to land it in a slight downwind or a crosswind, always stand it up etc)

The other thing to think about is the reserve. If that rig has a 170 main and a 150 reserve - can you land a 150 reserve anywhere you want?

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We are about the same weight. I went from a 210 as a student to a 190. At first the 190 seemed fast, but within 50 jumps I was on a 150. Smart? Idk., but I was comfortable with the transition and people far more experienced than me had no objections. My opinion, don't buy a canopy until you've found your sweet spot. This is a subject best discussed with people at your dz, but be weary if someone is selling and also telling you what you want to hear. Get at least a couple opinions from people you trust... had some friends over the other night and at a point it occured to me "all four of us have been broken under a parachute"..we'veall been in the sport less than three years. Food for thought.

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I think I already know the answer to this, but I'm a noob and want a second opinion.
I recently got my A and I'm still jumping a 210. I'm looking to get my own gear and I'm currently looking at a complete rig in the classifieds that's a 170. I weigh about 170.
I'm assuming going from a 210 to 170 is too much too soon. Am I right or is it manageable?
Thanks



It just irks me that here we have another one of these "golden boys" who thinks he's one of those "special lot" that is bulletproof.

First of all, i did a little research and found on another post you were looking to demo some rigs. Ok, why wouldn't you take that opportunity and try out different rigs before you commit to a purchase. Take advantage of that program and go out and demo some rigs. Do you know how lucky you are to have a DZ that offers a comprehensive demo?

Next, can you consistently land that 210? And what I mean by consistently can you control that wing against the wind, with the wind, at no wind. Can you land where you want to? Do you know the stall point? Do you know how to ride in deep brakes? When not to ride in deep brakes? Don't lie.

Finally have you even read Brian Germain's Downsizing chart? But not even read but performed the recommended maneuvers?

It seems you are hell bent on purchasing your own rig without even knowing what wing you want to fly, what harness fits you, or knowing how to do advanced maneuvers. Get over yourself and your ego and how good you think you are..you are still green and WILL BE green for the next few 100's jumps. Progress with care and proper training and not on your childish impulse to make a purchase cuz you're too lazy to demo stuff out.

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If you are 100% comfortable on the 210, then borrow someone's 190 and put 20 or so jumps on it. If you are 100% comfortable on THAT then the 170 might be a good idea. (And by 100% comfortable I mean able to land it anywhere you want, be able to land it in a slight downwind or a crosswind, always stand it up etc)?



^^This.

Hard jump numbers are the evil tools that internet-skygods on a self-righteous mission use to make themselves feel more deserving of their time in the sport. What it really boils down to is your 'knack' for flying canopies and how often & consistently you are jumping. These are variables that only your instructors and S&TA have a first hand glimpse of, so I would talk to them instead of taking advice off the internet to heart. Now, don't get me wrong, multiple opinions are always better than one, but you have no idea who's talking out of their ass, what their experience is, and what their motive is when dealing with people on an internet forum.

If you're looking to buy a 170 and you have talked it over with your instructors that are familiar with you, then go for it. You can always keep it in your closet while renting a 190 for the next 20-30 jumps.

Also, do you weight 170 with or without gear? ~1.1 isn't that much more drastic than 1.0, despite what many people on here will tell you. One large variable to consider is the altitude density of the dropzone you jump at. Are you at sea level with dense, moist air? Or a higher-altitude dropzone with a dry climate?

**Edit to add** I wish I would have continued reading posts before making one. If what Goonies said is true, then it sounds like you're seeking one or two folk's approval to reassure yourself about the decision you have already made despite what folks around your DZ have told you. You're lucky as hell to have a DZ with a wide variety of equipment to demo prior to making a purchase. If this is the case, disregard my above post and stick to a 190.

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Either you're reading way too much into what he wrote or you're privy to information the rest of us aren't.



Privy to information? All the info i gathered is public and here in the forums.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4460385;page=unread#unread
Indicates that OP is already looking on information on how to purchase a used rig.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4462636;page=unread#unread
Indicates OP is doing some research on pros and cons of demo

And now this recent question on a 170.

I'm no detective but of all the posts OP has asked about it all points to a highly possible decision that OP IS going to buy rig and most likely a 170 wing.

Hell, would the conversation be the same if i knew someone who was fresh off AFF, only weighed 130 lbs and found a 150 wing?

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I don't disagree with your advice, I just don't get how you got this:
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It just irks me that here we have another one of these "golden boys" who thinks he's one of those "special lot" that is bulletproof.

...

Progress with care and proper training and not on your childish impulse to make a purchase cuz you're too lazy to demo stuff out.



From what he said in any of his posts. It seems unnecessarily hostile. I could be completely out of touch with reality, but I see someone who is (understandably) a little overeager to have gear he can call his own and figuring out how to go about getting it.

He's at least questioning his thought process, so he's not a total noodge.

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You're learning the hard way not to post on dz.com early in your skydiving adventures. I very nearly came to blows with someone at the dz because of a thread i started on here when i was still an aff student...It's a harsh crowd, but you got some good advice..take it and try not to kill yourself or someone else out there...have fun.:D

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My take is that during your first 100-200 jumps you are constantly learning. You're doing your first 4 ways, 8 ways etc, initially your track won't be great and you may have suddenly find yourself close to other opening canopies. Same thing with the landing pattern, when you find yourself off for the first time, or a really deep spot, or lots of other canopies landing at the same time.

With the above in mind I think it makes a canopy that you are more comfortable flying and where things happen that little bit slower. The 190 fits that better. When you botch things up because of you or someone else the larger canopy is much more likely to give you a bruised ego and minor bumps and bruises. A 170 loaded over 1:1 is going to do more damage.

Finally a 190 will have good resale value, if you get something used and popular and put 100 jumps on it, you'll probably sell it for exactly what you bought it for. Having your own rig, will also allow you to demo 170 mains when the conditions suit you.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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i think he should demo a 190, then a 170, and if hes nailing those wings, purchase his own 150. whats the worst that can happen?



I just hit my hundredth jump and am planning on downsizing to a bit of KLEEN-EX attached to my rig with some DENTAL FLOSS! And then go around the country giving CANOPY NAZIS freaking ANEURYSMS!

Heh heh heh :P

Um... Should I be worried that I know how to spell "aneurysm" without looking it up?
I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

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Bill Von had the right advice. Downsizing is not based on guesses, it's based on actual real-world preformance on the next size up. If you cannot display accuracy and control on the next size up in a variety of conditions, then you are not ready to downsize.

I'll add one thing to the various checklists available, and that it to cross-check your skills with an instructor. Explain to them that you are thinking about downsizing, and ask them to keep an eye on you under canopy for the next 10 jumps or so (on your existing canopy). See what they have to say about your current skills.

Take what they have to say, combine it with your comfort level/confidence on your current wing, and that's who you make the choice to downsize (or not), one size at a time.

What's available in the classifieds is of no relation to your skills and abilites.

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There are plenty of options that don't require a double downsize and still get you in your first rig. Low bulk canopies like zpx and PD Pulse can help you get into a container and have downward mobility for later.

I was focused on DZ.com ads when I was shopping for my first rig and didn't even really look around my dropzone. With my wife's rig, we found it on our dropzone, test jumped it, bought it, had access to the owner long after the point of sale. With your weight, provided you are not abnormally short or tall, I would have a hard time believing that you can't find a suitable first rig locally.

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