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Jessie1984

GoPro question

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I am new to the skydiving community, I just made the transition from Military Freefall to civilian jumping and was curious why it is not advised/ allowed to jump a GoPro prior to 200 jumps. Is it a snag worry or that the jumper will be distracted by the camera?

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Welcome to the sport! The GoPro does have some snag issues that vary depending on the type of mount you use. However, the bigger issue for many people is the distraction. New toys can make us forget about the important things like correctly routed chest straps, making sure handles are secure, pulling on time, etc.

You might be surprised at how much of a distraction just remembering to push a button before exit can be. When I really need to concentrate on something else, I may have 5 minutes of inside the plane time on my video just so that I am not worried about fussing with the camera. It's not cool, but I get to do all my other important gear checks, etc at my preferred pace and time.

For other people, the distraction can be worse in trying to get the great shot and forgetting to check altitude as often. There are bunches of low pulls where the distraction of the camera was a major factor.

200 jumps may seem like a lot now, but if you love skydiving, you will be there soon. Enjoy jumping for the sake jumping now and it will make flying a camera easier when you do choose to.

FYI, there is a thread with a list of some incidents that had small cameras as a factor in stuff going wrong:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3894693;#3894693

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Becka, Thanks for the welcome!! I dig jumping for fun much more than work with a stupid ruck strapped to me, with O2 and NVGs. Go figure, work takes something that is fun as anything and makes it....well work. I appreciate the thorough response. Have a good one!

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I've never heard anything all that pleasant about military jumping, so I'm glad you made the transition so that you can enjoy yourself! Lots of fun to be had whatever discipline you choose. Have a great time flying! :)

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Becka, thanks for your response.

I'm at 116 jumps, have put alot in the last few months and I'm looking forward to jumping my GoPro. I mounted it to my bike helmet and have been using it / editing video for a bit to get used to it.

I think dz.com is a great forum with a lot of good people sharing information but on the cameras, one thing stands clear. People just say, "don't do it" till you get 200.

What we really need, is experienced camera flyers (GoProers even better) to get a list of things together for all of us noobs getting ready, to do / learn.

Aka, your point about turning it on five minutes ahead so you have ample time to do your last gear check in the plane? Spot on. As well as gear check on the ground etc...

I'll add to it. As I prepare to become one of the GoPro masses I just bought my first audible. Picked up a protrack from the dz.com classifieds and will be jumping with it this Friday for the first time. Also bought a Benny helmet so when I'm ready I'll be mounting it there instead of my full face helmet. Also I'm looking at what mods I can do to the Benny strap so I have a cut away system.

As an older guy, I'm in full belief of listening to those around me. In our sport, when you fail to recognize, it can wind up making you DEAD.

I'm not up for that. I love the sport too much and in turn it makes me love life even more. So, I'll listen. Will I wait for exactly jump 200? I might get wild and jump it at 189 ;-) But we know it's not an exact science.

Melissa Nelson just posted a fabulous article about GoPro's and the hazards. The stickies on the camera forum show every example imaginable about what can go wrong.

Good stuff, however, I'd challenge everyone, it's time to put together a laundry list of things to do, drill on ep's, etc... so when guy's like me start to fly one, we are in the best position to be successful and not wind up just another statistic.

My contribution is I'll be flying my dytter well before I start with my GoPro. I'll outfit my helmet with a cutaway system and last but not least, per your recommendation, I'll ensure my gear checks are thorough and my camera is on well before exit so my last gear check is accurate and complete.

To the rest of you, what else do we need to do?


Thanks again, great response,


Jack

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jumpinjackflsh

Becka, thanks for your response.

I'm at 116 jumps, have put alot in the last few months and I'm looking forward to jumping my GoPro. I mounted it to my bike helmet and have been using it / editing video for a bit to get used to it.

I think dz.com is a great forum with a lot of good people sharing information but on the cameras, one thing stands clear. People just say, "don't do it" till you get 200.

What we really need, is experienced camera flyers (GoProers even better) to get a list of things together for all of us noobs getting ready, to do / learn.

Aka, your point about turning it on five minutes ahead so you have ample time to do your last gear check in the plane? Spot on. As well as gear check on the ground etc...

I'll add to it. As I prepare to become one of the GoPro masses I just bought my first audible. Picked up a protrack from the dz.com classifieds and will be jumping with it this Friday for the first time. Also bought a Benny helmet so when I'm ready I'll be mounting it there instead of my full face helmet. Also I'm looking at what mods I can do to the Benny strap so I have a cut away system.

As an older guy, I'm in full belief of listening to those around me. In our sport, when you fail to recognize, it can wind up making you DEAD.

I'm not up for that. I love the sport too much and in turn it makes me love life even more. So, I'll listen. Will I wait for exactly jump 200? I might get wild and jump it at 189 ;-) But we know it's not an exact science.

Melissa Nelson just posted a fabulous article about GoPro's and the hazards. The stickies on the camera forum show every example imaginable about what can go wrong.

Good stuff, however, I'd challenge everyone, it's time to put together a laundry list of things to do, drill on ep's, etc... so when guy's like me start to fly one, we are in the best position to be successful and not wind up just another statistic.

My contribution is I'll be flying my dytter well before I start with my GoPro. I'll outfit my helmet with a cutaway system and last but not least, per your recommendation, I'll ensure my gear checks are thorough and my camera is on well before exit so my last gear check is accurate and complete.

To the rest of you, what else do we need to do?


Thanks again, great response,


Jack



There are at least 5 articles solely dedicated to what one needs to do prior to flying a camera, and there is a forum filled with this information as well.
Some people will never be 'ready' to fly a camera; saw one today. They have over 1000 jumps, but couldn't manage the distraction of the camera in the aircraft nor in the sky. Wanting to capture every knuckle bump, hand-slap, and yee-haw on the plane, they dislodged someone else' reserve handle in the process of moving around inside a Caravan. On exit, they jumped up "to get a better angle of her friend's exit" and damn near hit the tail. In freefall, went low while backflying to get the deployment shot.

In short, know what you're doing in all aspects of your jumping and discipline before adding a 'flight recorder.'
Know your EP's in/out. I've come to the belief that anyone that hasn't had a cutaway probably shouldn't be jumping a camera yet, but others will find that extreme (I hadn't had a cutaway when I first put on a camera rig, and had nearly 1000 camera jumps before my first chop).
Be able to fly non-contact slots with groups.
Learn to have a good idea of altitude without an altimeter/audible. For example, move your wristmount alti to your chest. It'll feel different. So will a camera jump.
Stay on your belly.
Having a cutaway on your helmet is great, but you'll also want to add it to your EP practice/process before you add the camera.
Learn to track well (camera doesn't mean you'll always be opening high/in the center).
Learn to control your canopy without toggles (up high, where you might be fiddling with a camera or wings).
Learn to identify/minimize snag hazards.
Learn the camera functions well so you're not messing with them on the plane.
Know the width of the lens at various settings so you will know how far/close to fly.
These are just a few things brought up in the camera forum sticky.

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What we really need, is experienced camera flyers (GoProers even better) to get a list of things together for all of us noobs getting ready, to do / learn.



There's some info online, but what you noobs really need is to approach an experienced camera flyer at your home DZ, and learn in-person, face to face.

Anyone can sit and read articles online. Anyone can also misunderstand what they read, or incorrectly assume that they 'know it all' when what they read may have been incomplete.

Working with a real person, in real life increases your chances of getting complete instruction, complete understanding, and covers you for as much 'idiot factor' as you need. If you're an enormous idiot, a real person can slow the instruction down, and be vey sure to double (or triple) check that you really know/understand the material. Reading online does not provide that type of 'personalized' instruction.

I've said it a million times, the internet is a terrible place to 'learn' how to skydive. It's a 'fair' place to learn to hone your basic skydiving skills, and it's a 'good' place to discuss (or argue, or shoot the shit) about things you already 'know' fairly well.

There are too many nuances to gear, situations, techniques and individual people, that you really need that focused, one-on-one attention to really learn anything new in this sport.

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You have to wonder, jumping at night with a bergen, weapon, O2 and NVGs is par for the course but a little tiny GoPro is a snag-tastic distract-athon of epic proportions.



I'm willing to bet that he got some very specific, focused instruction before he jumped in the configuration described above. I'm also willing to bet that he was thoroughly vetted for his natural abilities to handle those types of situations.

I'm also aware that the military has an 'acceptable' casualty rate when it comes to dropping soldiers out of a plane. They have a 'mission' that overrides the need for complete and total 'safety' as it would for a sport jumper. If they can get 98% of the boots safely on the ground, the helps the mission, and thus makes the 2% casualty rate an 'acceptable' consequence.

I wouldn't classify wanting to film your friends on a shitty 2-way a 'mission' worth increasing the casualty rate at your local DZ.

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Thanks Douglas, per the stickies and articles I have read all of them, repeatedly. I didn't intend to infer the information wasn't there.

Re your point on some people aren't ready even at 1000, point well taken as well. The funny thing about that is the whole ongoing "heads up jumper" discussion regarding when someone is capable.

I know I consistently ask those questions of myself when preparing to do anything. Ask anyone, most will tell you they think they are above and beyond it all. I'm not one that's ever had those delusions.

Thanks also for summarizing, you are correct, they do exist there. Short sighted of me for not calling that out.

Im looking forward to flying camera for lots of reasons. First and foremost to capture the event, for review and improvement. Next, in my progression I do intend to learn how to be a good camera flyer for groups, tandem, etc... The last ten years I've specialized in corporate webcasting including everything from running camera to capture, conversion and broadcast worldwide over corporate intranets. I enjoy engineering and development and find that some of the best camera work in skydiving often far exceeds what happens on the ground. That said I'm looking forward to building on the professional knowledge I've gained thus far and adding camera flying to my toolbox.

You can bet I will follow all of the above and focus intently on every aspect mentioned.

Dave, agreed, the internet is no place to "learn" skydiving. I will definitely seek out mentors to teach me face to face the art of good camera flying. Though I will add, yourself, Pops, DSE, and many others regularly post well thought out, good advice and on many occasions I've learned from it. Filtering out all the bs on here is often a task but common sense, well, is common sense.

Once again, thanks gentlemen. My goal is to jump well into my eighties and live to tell the story. I'll do whatever it takes to make that happen.

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