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normiss

Pencil packing???

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So I'm hearing a well know left coaster was recently caught pencil packing a BUNCH of military rigs and was summarily fired, as he should be.

Isn't his a criminal act?
Would the FAA yank your ticket if caught?

This is booolshit IMO.
I'd never use that rigger again. Err, packer, sorry. :P

It's one thing to pencil pack yourself (IMO) but a rigger??????? >:(

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Sorry fella's I'm a NOOB! But whats "Pencil Packing"?

Every 180 days your reserve must be repacked by an FAA certified rigger. This takes an hour-ish and runs $50-$100, depending on the rigger.

Pencil pack is when they just sign off the packing data card as repacked without really doing it. The packing data card is carried in a small pocket on every rig. Your instructor can show you if you ask.

A little history, when I started in the 70's the repack cycle was 60 days. Almost every rigger I knew would give a pencil pack at 60 days if you asked for it. I had no qualms about having mine "packed" that way. :)
When they changed the regs to 120 days, the USPA had a ceremony with the FAA and presented the FAA with a giant pencil, saying "We won't need this anymore." :D:D Pretty damn funny, really.

The 180 days we have now is okay, but I'd be fine with one year. :)

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So I'm hearing a well know left coaster was recently caught pencil packing a BUNCH of military rigs and was summarily fired, as he should be.

Isn't this a criminal act?
Would the FAA yank your ticket if caught?

This is booolshit IMO.
I'd never use that rigger again. Err, packer, sorry. :P

It's one thing to pencil pack yourself (IMO) but a rigger??????? >:(



Are military rigs subject to the same regs as civilian rigs? Are military riggers subject to the same rules as civilian riggers?

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Great question.
If that's what happened here, maybe so, as this person was fired so far as I understand.
Personally though, no clue.
I let go of military concerns a lifetime ago.
B|

I also agree with John....once a yea IS fine by me.
I do adhere to current regulations though.
:)

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Hi Dougles,

I can only tell what I have learned over the years. It might be right ( I think it is ) or it might be wrong.

In a nutshell: Both the military (DoDefense ) and the FAA ( DoTransportation ) are in the Executive Branch of the gov't ( but you probably know that ). One is not over the other.

When it comes time to launch a whole bunch of F-15s because nasty things are happening, you for sure to not want some GS-2 ATC guy telling them they have to wait for the Piper to get out of way.

For both questions: No IMO

However, it is my understanding that both the Army Team & the Navy Chuting Stars do adhere as much as they can for good relations and no bad headlines.

Again, just my opinion; others may have different thoughts,

JerryBaumchen

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Hi John,

Quote

I had no qualms about having mine "packed" that way.



A couple of good friends would pencil pack their rigs ( after I had packed them ) using my name. I told them I did not care but do not use my name.

So then there was this Middle Eastern rigger who packed a whole bunch of them over a long period of time. His name was U BIN HAHD

:P

JerryBaumchen

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Are military rigs subject to the same regs as civilian rigs?
***

DSE,
If the Military is jumping out of a Part 91 operated (civilian) airplane: then the answer is "yes".
See Below:

65.111 Certificate required.
(a) No person may pack, maintain, or alter any personnel-carrying parachute intended for emergency use in connection with civil aircraft of the United States (including the reserve parachute of a dual parachute system to be used for intentional parachute jumping) unless that person holds an appropriate current certificate and type rating issued under this subpart and complies with §§ 65.127 through 65.133.

This is the main reason for the Military comp certificate which is a fairly simple and painless transition to a FAA certificate.

There are a lot of contractors hauling Military jumpers in Part 91 aircraft out there these days.

As far as the Military rigs, see below:

Approved parachute means a parachute manufactured under a type certificate or a Technical Standard Order (C-23 series), or a personnel-carrying U.S. military parachute (other than a high altitude, high speed, or ejection type) identified by a Navy Air Facility, an Army Air Field, and Air Force-Navy drawing number, an Army Air Field order number, or any other military designation or specification number.


Are military riggers subject to the same rules as civilian riggers?
***

That I do not know. But, the individual could hold both a military and civilian rating at the same time.
And again, the question is what aircraft is he or she jumping from.

BS,
MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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When the packing is bad for the reserve more than it is good for deployment something needs to change.



I recently pulled out my reserve that had been packed for about 5 yrs. There was no determinable difference between it and one that had been packed 6 months ago. After seeing that I would have no problem jumping my rig with a 5 yr old reserve pack.

The same can not be said for the 3 yr old main pack job. It was a brick.

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Hi Spence,

Quote

my reserve that had been packed for about 5 yrs



One very well know jumper ( no names will be mentioned ) told me, a number of years ago, that he had to use his reserve that had been packed for 5 yrs. It worked just as designed.

5 year repack cycle anyone? :P

JerryBaumchen



I actually wouldn't have a problem with that because I know how my rig is taken care of. I don't leave it outside in the back of my truck, get is wet swooping, piss on it or the likes. I wouldn't want to borrow a 5 yr pack job.

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And that's the rub. If there's a regulation, it really has to target the average/low average caretaker of gear, not the excellent.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Well of course. But I don't give a shit what the other guy has on his back.:D

If someone is stupid enough to not take care of their rig and jump it out of date...



Right up until the point they come through you on final.

A rigger pencil packing anything other than their own rig that never leaves their sight/direct supervision, a very bad idea, IMO.

Don't Pull Low... Unless You ARE!!!
The pessimist says, "It can't get any worse than this." The optimist says, "Sure, it can."
Be fun, have safe.

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