High perf landings and wanting to be selfish

[popsjumper 2]

becka

Thank you! I couldn't address that part correctly without sounding even more snarky than I feel right now.

Having to actually argue for safety makes me feel dirty.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[gowlerk 1,903]

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Having to actually argue for safety makes me feel dirty.

Pretty much everyone in the sport believes they are "safe". What a crock. Skydiving is not safe, ask your mother. What you believe is safe is different from the next person. Safe is not what we do. Lowering risk to allow for survival is what we do. We have rules that are a framework. Different people will select different risk levels within that framework. Some will make choices you would not. Just like you made choices your mother would not.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

gowlerk

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Having to actually argue for safety makes me feel dirty.

Pretty much everyone in the sport believes they are "safe". What a crock. Skydiving is not safe, ask your mother. What you believe is safe is different from the next person. Safe is not what we do. Lowering risk to allow for survival is what we do. We have rules that are a framework. Different people will select different risk levels within that framework. Some will make choices you would not. Just like you made choices your mother would not.

That's very true.

Unfortunately, some people suck at risk identification and risk management.

They think they are operating at a reasonable level of risk, when everyone around them is betting on when they are going to bounce.

"Don't worry, I've got it under control. I know what I'm doing."

Thud.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[gowlerk 1,903]

wolfriverjoe

That's very true.

Unfortunately, some people suck at risk identification and risk management.

They think they are operating at a reasonable level of risk, when everyone around them is betting on when they are going to bounce.

"Don't worry, I've got it under control. I know what I'm doing."

Thud.

I guess it does happen that way sometimes. But more often than not it's a person generally considered "safe" who has an accident. We do indeed have too many canopy incidents involving testosterone charged young men under small canopies that they are not ready for. But all to often it's someone not particularly at risk who just runs out of luck or unexpectedly screws up. It's a very unforgiving sport.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[popsjumper 2]

You don't seem to understand the difference between safe and safety.

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Lowering risk to allow for survival is what we do.

That is practicing safety.

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Unfortunately, some people suck at risk identification and risk management.

That is unsafe.

And yes, 'safe' is relative.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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But more often than not it's a person generally considered "safe" who has an accident.

...and many times those considerations were wrong for one reason or another. We often hear, "He was a safe skdiver." Then we learn that, in reality, he was not practicing safety procedures...the ignored one that got him hurt.

And yes, you can be a practicing safety nazi and still biff it.

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But all to often it's someone not particularly at risk who just runs out of luck or unexpectedly screws up. It's a very unforgiving sport.

True dat...except for the "luck" part that implies that it was some other's responsibility. "It wasn't his fault. He just ran out of luck." Nah...doesn't work.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Pops - Do you think Ken Oka's death, Cliff Schmucker' death or Mike Truffer's incident were their fault?

I'm not dismissing your statement that "his luck ran out" is often used to evade responsibility, it is.

But for the 3 I named above, I see it as a series of unfortunate circumstances that ended badly.

Those 3 shook me somewhat. More than I expected, and it took a day or so to fully sink in. All three fit the quote (from Sparky Owens, I believe) "You can do everything right and still die."

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[popsjumper 2]

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Pops - Do you think Ken Oka's death, Cliff Schmucker' death or Mike Truffer's incident were their fault?

Loaded question but none were due to 'luck' either.

There's a difference between 'fault' and 'luck'....they don't equate.

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But for the 3 I named above, I see it as a series of unfortunate circumstances that ended badly.

Exactly.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Ok, thanks.
I agree with you on that.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[airtwardo 6]

Murphy Lurks

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

airtwardo

Murphy Lurks

Isn't every jump a three-way at minimum?

I've heard that the Reaper lurks and Murphy is waiting to swoop in.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[gowlerk 1,903]

airtwardo

Murphy Lurks

This expresses very well what I mean by "luck run out". If any of us relies on being lucky we won't last long. The luck I'm referring to is merely short hand for having circumstances beyond our direct control coming together and harming us.

Murphy, or Lady Luck, or bad Karma, it's merely an expression. None of them really exist except in our minds to explain the unexpected.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[sundevil777 93]

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Unfortunately, some people suck at risk identification and risk management.

They think they are operating at a reasonable level of risk, when everyone around them is betting on when they are going to bounce.

"Don't worry, I've got it under control. I know what I'm doing."

Many have reportedly tried to talk to them using reason. I suggest that maybe angrily telling them that they are no longer welcome as a friend (and getting a lot of the other regulars to agree) might make an impact. A person could say, "I would rather not be your friend when you get hurt or die, so that I'll care less." After all, they want to be seen as part of the cool crowd/very experienced jumpers at the DZ. What do y'all think?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

sundevil777

Quote

Unfortunately, some people suck at risk identification and risk management.

They think they are operating at a reasonable level of risk, when everyone around them is betting on when they are going to bounce.

"Don't worry, I've got it under control. I know what I'm doing."

Many have reportedly tried to talk to them using reason. I suggest that maybe angrily telling them that they are no longer welcome as a friend (and getting a lot of the other regulars to agree) might make an impact. A person could say, "I would rather not be your friend when you get hurt or die, so that I'll care less." After all, they want to be seen as part of the cool crowd/very experienced jumpers at the DZ. What do y'all think?

I've come fairly close to doing just that. He double femured, and when he came back I said something like: "I love you like a brother, but if you keep doing that shit, I won't be here for you because I don't want to be here when you kill yourself." He has mostly listened, but not totally.

The problem is getting everyone or even a lot of the regulars to do it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo