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jdthomas

student accident

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I'm almost positive that the reserve was something like a Tempo 170, not 100% mind you but if I find out differently I'll post it.

Anyhow, they were just getting on a plane at 6p headed for New York. You'll evidentaly be able to see them in the morning on "Good Morning America" and possibly the "Today" show. There is also an Oprah interview being set up at some point. I've expressed to them the uproar that has been seen in the skydiving community and they were unaware that they were doing harm to the sport. Shayna has insisted that all the interviews try and spin the situation in a positive light and has finished each one by saying that she intends to skydive again after the baby is born. I expressed that no matter how you spin it, it still makes people scared of skydiving and that is a black eye on us and that the interviews were probably not a good idea. They are upset now that they have created a snowball effect blacking the eyes of skydivers everywhere and will try and help rectify what has already been said.

I personally don't agree with all the decisions that have been made thus far, I'm just passing on what I know... anyway thought that the skydiving community would like an update... I'll be tuning in, in the morning to see if the interviews change at all. Peace.

Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher
D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I
Videographer/Photographer

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I'm almost positive that the reserve was something like a Tempo 170, not 100% mind you but if I find out differently I'll post it.



I jumped that container for my last few student jumps and I recalled it being a smaller reserve. It is just my recollection but I thought it was a PD126 to match the 135 main I jumped in that container. It was back in Feburary so my facts could be off but I really believe it was much smaller.
I love my husband!

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Ok, now granted, I'm no expert by any means...but I've watched this thread go on and on at our local internet website...

It was apparent that she had a problem with one of her toggles to begin with...which could have been easily corrected. So, she chopped it...

Looks like to me that it's the exact same scenario...on brake un-released? Or a toggle that was let go of?

It all comes down to the training IMHO. It just wasnt there. I know the instructor..and others involved..I jumped with this instructor..but I NEVER heard, nor understood, my reserve to be a GUARENTEE! There are no GUARENTEES in life...

It just saddens me that instead of asking INSIDE the skydiving community, those involved have taken this OUTSIDE the skydiving community..with potentially damaging results.

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I wish there was a higher [full] resolution video available, to see if we can't get a better look at the lines during the spin. I'm sure that it's been analyzed over and over again by those with access to it, of course. If anybody has a Tivo...

Forgive me if this has been posted, but I didn't see it: What was the status of the reserve brakes after impact?
I really don't know what I'm talking about.

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I would like to ask a stupid newbie review question. In this situation if the reserve was spinning wildly release both brakes and flare. If this does not fix the problem counter the turn with the rear riser and attempt to fly the parachute straight using the rear risers only. If you have the rear risers in an uneven position should you flare on landing or should you just fly straight and do a great PLF?

Yes, I will run this by my instructors. I am asking because the wind, weather, a presidential visit to my city (created a flight restriction) and available dropzones are making jumping a challenge this time of the year.

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I have been following this thread for a couple days..

And I have to say that it seem that everyone is quick to jump on the student for being an idiot, and the instructor for doing a poor job. I really have no clue which one it is, or if it's both, or neither..

I just have to note that in my time in the sport I have seen students make a number of bad decisions that can't be marked up to poor instruction. Cutting away because the slider wouldn't go back up, mistaking a snivel for a mutiple line-over, cutting away and pulling their reserve because their instructor continued to fall after they deployed, not cutting away when they should have, grabbing the pilot chute when it went in front of their face and holding on to it... the list is really endless.

Some people receive the best training in the world, but when it comes down to making a decision under pressure, they respond poorly. You can't necessarily pick out these people on the ground either.. some of them seem very intelligent and competent.

As far as the student knowing to correct the turn with a riser.. Out of all the things in the first jump class... is this really something that is stressed during training? If this was possibly her first time handling her rear risers, do you think maybe she a bit nervous or scared of what would happen? I know when I was a student, when trying rear riser turns for the first time, if I had popped a brake and not realized it, it may have made me panic. We give someone a first jump course, saturate their head with information, place them in a stressful environment and then expect them to remember every little detail? Hopefully they do, but a number of times they don't.

It's one of the reasons students are equipped with things like RSL's, AAD's, SOS systems, spring loaded pilot chutes, extra large parachutes...

We can try to make things very, very safe. But no matter what, nothing will be fool-proof.

As far as the criticism or her making a bad decision to cut-away and not fix the problem, I'm sure there are plenty of experienced jumpers on this site (maybe reading this thread and not posting) who have done this. Plenty of people also cut away a perfectly good (or easily fixed) main canopy while still a student and grow up to become perfectly good skydivers. In fact, I'm friends with several of these people. I never marked them off as hopeless, just tried to be understanding of their errors and then teased them when appropriate.

There probably are some things to learn from this incident, but I think the focus has turned into bashing this woman, and not learning about what one can do better as a student or as an instructor.

We all probably wish that she would not speak to the media so much.. but not many people at 10 (or was it 1?) jumps are really a part of our community yet and may not understand how/why things like that are frowned upon.

My two-cents..

-Karen

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

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It is worth pointing out that we got lucky in the FAA investigation and drew a master rigger as lead investigator. He ruled it an incident but listed cause as undetermined and assigned no fault. And in case someone ask again, I never saw the final report. I got this directly from the investigator who's based out of the Little Rock, AR FSDO. I don't recall his name but if you call and ask for the guy who handled the parachute accidnet in Oct., the'll connect you.



Is his report what will be reported in Parachutist?

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Thank You. Thank You. Thank You.

I have been saying this from day one... It was a horrible accident, one that probably could have been avoided. But it was an accident none the less. Poor choices were made by the student and instructor alike. But I don't think any of the poor decisions were enough to totally write off either one. Both of these people are my friends. I have expressed my opinions to both of them, without sugar coating. I have informed them of what I thought they did wrong.

The instructor probably should have not put her on a Sabre2 canopy. However, it has been done with students in the past and things have turned out ok. He is aware of this now. Ultimately the student should not have cut away a good canopy. She is aware of this now. Both of these individuals have learned from their mistakes.

She did not go to the press to place a black eye on the sport of skydiving and was shocked to think that many of us feel that she has done just that. Naive, yes but criminal no. She is faced with some large medical bills at the moment and was given the opportunity to cash in a bit to help with those bills. No one will be getting rich from the end result, you can bet on that. She thought that by telling the press she wanted to put a positive spin on the story would be enough. Again, naive but not malicious.

Anyhow, it just upsets me to see everyone so down on both of them when they don't know all the facts. I know most of the facts and have been watching this whole thing unfold since day one. DAY ONE! As I stated, I believe this situation could have been avoided but it happened and the best we can do is to not duplicate it. All the negative posts don't help any of it.

It boils down to the fact that Shayna found herself in a less than desirable predicament. She made a wrong decision of chopping a good canopy without first trying to fix it. A case of panic nothing more. Then when her reserve didn't open properly... honestly who could have ever expected that, she did the right things and they didn't work. A case of a little too late. It's my opinion that she had the proper training and just brain farted it. When her training finally kicked in, it just simply didn't work. It was an unfortunate accident.

Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher
D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I
Videographer/Photographer

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"I jumped that container for my *last few student jumps *and I recalled it being a smaller reserve. It is just my recollection but I thought it was a *PD126 to match the 135* main I jumped in that container. "

Did I read that right???????????? BTW, the video has made it out here to arizona.. nothing like spending my day telling people that 1) it was not me 2) i dont know what happened
Growing old is mandatory, Growing up is optional

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Let me clarify. She was not jumping a 135. It was a Sabre2 190. I jumped a 135 in that container months ago, not Shayna. Also this was not in AZ, it was Siloam Springs as all the news casters have stated. I was just stating that I don't think it was such a large reserve and my past experiences.
I love my husband!

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You are right. I got my AFF here in Fla. My instructors spent a great deal of time teaching me how to deal with malfunctions. We expend SOOO much time on the hanging hardness practicing how to deal with all kind of malfunctions. I got tossed, spun, shake around and evaluated on my reactions to a possible mal way before I got to my 1st, 2nd, ...jump. EP was a great deal on my AFF training. At the time it though to me that they were over doing it, but now I realize how important it is.

"Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies
Tongue-tied and twisted Just an earth-bound misfit, I". pf

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Let me clarify. She was not jumping a 135. It was a Sabre2 190. I jumped a 135 in that container months ago, not Shayna. Also this was not in AZ, it was Siloam Springs as all the news casters have stated. I was just stating that I don't think it was such a large reserve and my past experiences.


I think packerkevin's concern was the size of your main/reserve on student status whe YOU jumped that rig (according to how your earlier statement reads).

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On the contrary - I think his concern was the fact that it had a 126 RESERVE in there!!!

(possibly... although it would be a rather unusual container if it had a main pack tray sized for a 135 and a tempo 170 in the reserve).

If putting a student out on a SabreII 190 is marginally dumb you really have to wonder about the logic of letting a student jump with a 126 reserve.

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This is just unbelievable. Thanks to CNN & the AP wire service, not only has it hit every single newspaper and local and national news broadcast in the US, it's now gone international. (Here's the BBC's link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4527754.stm).

For the life of me, I cannot understand what makes her "no shit there I was" story any more worthy of worldwide news coverage than any other skydiver's bonfire story.

3 million skydives worldwide annually, maybe 2 or 3 of them resulting in a reserve mal after a cutaway, and one of them has to happen to her. Someone should tell her it's ok to take the Scarlet "A" off her chest now...

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For the life of me, I cannot understand what makes her "no shit there I was" story any more worthy of worldwide news coverage than any other skydiver's bonfire story.




Dude, yes you can. It's simply because she found herself pregnant during her stay at the hospital. That's sensational and it makes for a good 'story'.

Your BBC link Clicky



My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

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It's simply because she found herself pregnant during her stay at the hospital. That's sensational and it makes for a good 'story'.



You're right. I do understand:

"Faustus begins to waver in his conviction to sell his soul. The good and evil angels make another appearance, with the good one again urging Faustus to think of heaven, but the evil angel convinces him that the wealth he can gain through his deal with the devil is worth the cost."

From Commentary on "Dr. Faustus" by Christopher Marlowe

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>I cannot understand what makes her "no shit there I was" story any
> more worthy of worldwide news coverage than any other skydiver's
> bonfire story.

It's the classic "hope springs from tragedy" story. Plucky chick faces death, survives, discovers to her joy that she is pregnant - and still has the courage to skydive again one day. Much more interesting to the average reader than Joe Extreme breaking his back doing something extreme.

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For the life of me, I cannot understand what makes her "no shit there I was" story any more worthy of worldwide news coverage than any other skydiver's bonfire story


Easy -
She was pretty, blonde, and female. There is video which captures the whole thing, complete with the boyfriend screaming. She was pregnant. She is now obviously messed up (facial deformity and no teeth).
- Take away any of these pieces and there isn't much of a story.
I think if this was an ugly fat guy, it would be relegated to its 20 seconds of fame on Real TV.

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will try and help rectify what has already been said.


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I'll be tuning in, in the morning to see if the interviews change at all.



After watching her on Good Morning America - I don't believe she did any better on this interview - she didn't make anything clearer (or more accurate/true) or do anything to un do what damage she's done.
Of course the media doesn't make it any easier by asking "was there anything you could have done to stop the turn" or "what should you have done differently". They're not going to do that, but she could have interjected some of that information if she wanted to. Doesn't seem like she wants to.
I can understand needing $$ for medical bills, but not at the expense of the sport.

-------------------------
"If you've never jumped out of a plane, the best way I can describe it is it feels as if you've just jumped out of a freakin' plane."
David Whitley (Orlando Sentinel)

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I am working from my home office today and caught the local news over lunch. Guess what I saw for about the 50th time now? Skydiver survives 10,000' plunge after her main and reserve parachutes malfunction. I live just north of Boston--this was the local news.

Having seen this tape a few times now, looks like the slider got hung up. Man, I think I'd be banging on everything to get it down, even as a student. But then, I spent a lot of time in a hanging harness and was never trained to believe in a 'guaranteed open.' What's THAT about?

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