Why not to freefly a Talon.

[Bignugget 0]

To be fair the picture accounts for about 1 second of the dive....and I know I shouldn't be off my belly on the rig.

My justification is I can fly it on my back at belly speed, and I only did it for a second.

Flame on...but damn that's a crazy amount of riser hanging out to roll out of safely!

When I saw the picture I could only think, fuck its a good thing I never tried to pop a sit in the thing.

Here is the video of the jump to give you all an idea of the actual time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s-kTNVIVas&feature=youtu.be

.....Anyone selling a 190 freefly friendly rig??

[jayach05 0]

What kind of Talon was it? I have a 96 Talon II that is an awesome freefly rig. I never had a problem sit flying or head down with it.

[grimmie 173]

Packing error exposed by a hard dock.

[gowlerk 1,902]

I can't tell for sure, but it looks like an older original Talon, possibly with the updated tuck tab riser cover. I wouldn't go blaming RI design here. I'd say that it's better than just about any rig made in this era.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Bignugget 0]

It's an original Talon, with tuck tabs. The tuck tabs work pretty well (not on me) but for some reason the way the rig fits on my body, the tuck tab wont stay closed for shit.

I am fully aware it wants to pop open, and also fully aware its not freefly friendly.

All the same I wanted to do a little barrel roll.

The picture just seemed wild enough to post.


For grimmie: It could very well be packing error I suppose...I have only 80 jumps. Quite often it will be popping loose in the plane, or even just during gear up etc. Many jumpers, including several riggers have tried to fix it up, without success. I would welcome any packing tips you might have to help it seat better.

[chemfx 0]

looks like it was loose before u got on your back.

[Bignugget 0]

Yep, its always loose.....Grimmie gave me a couple tips to try next time I pack to maybe keep it tighter and help the tuck tabs seat better. I will see if that helps the covers stay on.

"Normally" the right side comes loose and refuses to seat properly once I put the rig on.

I have resigned myself to staying on my belly....or at least at belly speeds....

[jumpinjackflsh 0]

Uh yeah, I had to tuck it in for you Sat prior to boarding, same one was loose...

[Bignugget 0]

You can tuck me in any day.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

My justification is I can fly it on my back at belly speed, and I only did it for a second.

Oh, in that case, it must be fine because you can justify it.

It's not just the speed of freeflying, it's the direction of the wind. Have you ever seen anyone tell one of the 'bigger boys' not to belly fly a rig that's not freefly friendly because they fall at freefly speeds on their belly?

No, the reason being that the directionality of the wind is still in line with the design of the rig. Even if you were a feather weight who could sit fly at 110 mph, it's still a 110 mph wind hitting the rig in a way it wasn't designed for.

So if you have a rig that's not freefly friendly, that includes everything but face to earth flying. Back, side, sit, head down, etc, and it's not the overall speed, but the direction of the wind that really counts.

[CornishChris 5]

I had a Talon for years and it was great but the tuck tabs did go eventually. I replaced the rig when I just couldn't get one of them to stay shut, even after a rigger had had a look. It was just time for that rig I think. Generally it was awesome but rigs do age and wear and tear takes it's toll.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[BIGUN 1,048]

I had a similar issue when the Wings Ext came out. Myself and the female Canadian rigger at Skydive Dallas spent one evening over beer looking at it and where it hit me on my rather large but handsome self. The tuck tabs were similar to the smaller versions of the regular wings. We took it apart, redesigned the mylar tab to be longer and a little wider. I made a template of the new tuck tab and some pics and then we placed the new mylar tab back in and she restitched it. Made a few test jumps the next day and all was right again. Sent the pics and template up to Henri for review.

So, my suggestion is to contact the manufacturer for some guidance on a field re-design and/or send it back to him with the pic and ask for assistance. My second suggestion is to always contact the manufacturer first; rather than appear to make a blanket negative statement against a manufacturer in a public format.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[chuckakers 369]

gowlerk

I can't tell for sure, but it looks like an older original Talon, possibly with the updated tuck tab riser cover. I wouldn't go blaming RI design here. I'd say that it's better than just about any rig made in this era.

Guess you guys don't go back far enough. The "original" Talon didn't even have tuck tabs. The talon debuted in 1985. I owned the 184th one made - serial # 284.

It had regular velcro riser covers and pin covers. Sandy invented the tuck tab when he wasn't happy with his one-piece main pin cover/main top flap design's ability to stay closed when the velcro would get old. The original tuck tab was on the main pin cover and was called the "Talon Tongue" because of its shape.

It worked so well that Sandy continued to develop it and the modern-day tuck tab was born.

As for freeflying with older rigs of any kind, it is not recommended. Freeflying was in its infancy when those rigs were built and they were not designed for it.

As for the video on this thread, it appears that back flying had nothing to do with the release. Pretty much ALL early riser tabs got weak with age and wear. It was only through ongoing design development that the manufacturers were able to cure that, and I still see rigs made today - in particular Wings and Javs - that have riser covers that come loose....on the ground.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[phreeloader 0]

granted, I'm VERY new.. but as far as maneuvers go, that doesn't look any more extreme than front flip/ back flip/ barrel roll that I had to do as part of my aff/A license progression... hell i think I was on my back twice that long after my 1st backflip in AFF

[CSpenceFLY 1]

With that much riser hanging out you have a packing issue also. I could leave the covers on my Javelin open and never have the risers come out like that.

[rustywardlow 0]

I've owned two Talons and have never had a problem. In fact on my Talon FS I undue the riser covers for hop and pops because they're that good.

[excuse 0]

I have a 94' Flexon (which is pretty much a Talon...) I take an extra minute or two when I'm tucking in the risers and making sure then are pulled snug before closing the container. I also added 'tuck tab' check to my handle check procedure (even tho I haven't had a problem...) Send Angela at Rigging Innovations a e-mail and ask her if there is something they can do... Mine had "freefly" mods done to it before I bought it and they did an GREAT job!

Picture attached is Sandy Reid and I (with my Flexon) at PIA this year. :)