kallend 1,935 #51 October 29 8 hours ago, rushmc said: I have not even talked about abortion. Please focus Read the title of this thread before making any more stupid comments. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 328 #52 October 29 12 hours ago, rushmc said: And in the end, ALL the legal bs against Trump will be thrown out No it won't. For example, him stealing money from his charity was 'legal bs' that stands today, 6 years later. When he loses the election, the trials roll on. But, hey you seem confident... wanna put some money on what is going away? I mean you think ALL of it is, so let's bet on that. I will even let you make the list. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 328 #53 October 29 12 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi folks, As most of you know, I am a very strong supporter of a woman's right to abortion. I also donate to NARAL every year. Since the Dobbs decision, slowly but surely, we are winning back the right to an abortion. Slowly, state by state. However, I do not think that is enough. IMO every free thinking woman in this country should get involved; here is one opportunity: Defend Democracy - Emerge Jerry Baumchen I will never understand the contraction between bodily autonomy automatically applied to anything and everything men can do and the completely removal of bodily autonomy for women Cannot help but think that the 'christian values' as well as historical factors of women being 'less than men' are in play here. And many of those historical factors are also deeply rooted in religion of all kinds. The USA has never managed to pass the Equal Rights Amendment, women still make less money than men, we elected a black man before we would elect a woman. And so on. I expect that if men could get pregnant, you would be able to get an abortion at a drive through 7-Eleven No one and nothing (a fetus or embryo) has the right to use another person's body for its own survival, without that person's permission. It is absolutely a rights issue, a privacy issue, a bodily autonomy issue, and frankly, I am tired of the attitude and the lack of any respect for a woman's right to her own body. If we (they) do not have that right, then what are we? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,690 #54 October 29 9 hours ago, nigel99 said: I’m always interested in hearing viewpoints though. I have one friend who is pro trump and some reasonably sane explanations for a few things. But so far he’s the only person who seems to have a semi coherent argument. There’s nothing we agree on though Third party is better than no party, I reckon. Do tell, what are your friends reasonably sane explanations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,383 #55 October 29 1 hour ago, JoeWeber said: Third party is better than no party, I reckon. Do tell, what are your friends reasonably sane explanations? I also have friends like that. They see the number of undocumented aliens as a far bigger problem than I do -- but most of them live in Texas, where it is a bigger problem. Of course, it's also a source of inexpensive labor, keeping housing costs low, right? But most of my right-wing friends value loyalty far, far, more than I do; loyalty to how you were brought up, loyalty to traditions that others you associate with value, loyalty to the idea of country. And it seems that the outward expression is what counts most; what's inside (other than "I'm spiritual, not religious). It's visible, and it helps to identify what people stand for. Because, above much, it seems that my more conservative friends are, in fact, more tribal, in the proto-human way that banding together allows for easier survival as a species. In a world as crowded as ours, you have to know who is, and, about as important, who isn't a part of your tribe. I'm a member of one tribe for that group, and actively invited to and welcomed at those events. But I don't participate in the political discussions other than one-on-one, because there's just no future in it. Most of them will die before changing, and since they're largely older than I am, that's happening. It'll happen to me, too, someday. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,690 #56 October 29 2 hours ago, wmw999 said: I also have friends like that. They see the number of undocumented aliens as a far bigger problem than I do -- but most of them live in Texas, where it is a bigger problem. Of course, it's also a source of inexpensive labor, keeping housing costs low, right? But most of my right-wing friends value loyalty far, far, more than I do; loyalty to how you were brought up, loyalty to traditions that others you associate with value, loyalty to the idea of country. And it seems that the outward expression is what counts most; what's inside (other than "I'm spiritual, not religious). It's visible, and it helps to identify what people stand for. Because, above much, it seems that my more conservative friends are, in fact, more tribal, in the proto-human way that banding together allows for easier survival as a species. In a world as crowded as ours, you have to know who is, and, about as important, who isn't a part of your tribe. I'm a member of one tribe for that group, and actively invited to and welcomed at those events. But I don't participate in the political discussions other than one-on-one, because there's just no future in it. Most of them will die before changing, and since they're largely older than I am, that's happening. It'll happen to me, too, someday. Wendy P. Interesting. But to my ear what’s missing are thoughtfulness and rationality in their reasons. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 432 #57 October 29 On 10/28/2024 at 1:33 PM, kallend said: It's pretty sad that you think the only rights we have are those laid down in the Constitution (as amended). That puts the US population way behind all of the EU, and the non EU European nations, as well as every country that references the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in its consttution (the US does not).. The Constitution does not lay down rights, it lays down limitations on government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 414 #58 October 29 4 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Third party is better than no party, I reckon. Do tell, what are your friends reasonably sane explanations? Please bear in mind I am passing on his views and these aren’t my own! I’m not going to defend them :) To start with he believes that Trump brings a fresh perspective to politics, by not being a career politician. While he accepts that Trump is vulgar and that his ‘presentation’ is less than ideal, he challenges the political structures. He agrees with the tough immigration stance and the ‘America first’ attitude of promoting internal business and discouraging business from manufacturing outside the US. The last point is that most politicians and wealthy businessmen break the rules and are corrupt to some extent. He believes that because Trump challenged the political establishment, he has been disproportionately pursued for crimes. He doesn’t say he is innocent, but rather the energy spent on Trump is more than others. Trump (especially of late), just blurts things out and has no impulse control. However, he also sees it as a form of ‘gaslighting’ to successfully implement policies. For example , suggesting 200% tariffs. He doesn’t believe Trump is stupid enough to believe or do that, but by setting the conversation there, he manages to implement say 5-10% tariffs with no resistance. This friend a very successful sales manager, in a trade Industry supplying building contractors , where it’s normal to take clients to strip clubs etc. Trump’s crassness is not seen as out of the ordinary but rather as a ‘typical bloke’ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,445 #59 October 29 29 minutes ago, brenthutch said: The Constitution does not lay down rights, it lays down limitations on government. Good to see you on the liberal team. Kindly explain to your right wing colleague where he made his mistake, he might listen to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,338 #60 October 29 6 hours ago, tkhayes said: I will never understand the contraction between bodily autonomy automatically applied to anything and everything men can do and the completely removal of bodily autonomy for women Cannot help but think that the 'christian values' as well as historical factors of women being 'less than men' are in play here. And many of those historical factors are also deeply rooted in religion of all kinds. The USA has never managed to pass the Equal Rights Amendment, women still make less money than men, we elected a black man before we would elect a woman. And so on. I expect that if men could get pregnant, you would be able to get an abortion at a drive through 7-Eleven No one and nothing (a fetus or embryo) has the right to use another person's body for its own survival, without that person's permission. It is absolutely a rights issue, a privacy issue, a bodily autonomy issue, and frankly, I am tired of the attitude and the lack of any respect for a woman's right to her own body. If we (they) do not have that right, then what are we? Hi tk, Re: The USA has never managed to pass the Equal Rights Amendment I am no Constitutional expert. The last that I read [ a few yrs ago ] is that that amendment is still out there waiting on [ I 'think' ] just two more states to ratify it. Re: I expect that if men could get pregnant, you would be able to get an abortion at a drive through 7-Eleven Bingo, you nailed it. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,915 #61 October 29 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: The Constitution does not lay down rights, it lays down limitations on government. Exactly right. It protects the government from infringing on your rights. Women recently lost some of that protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 305 #62 October 29 27 minutes ago, billvon said: 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: The Constitution does not lay down rights, it lays down limitations on government. Exactly right. It protects the government from infringing on your rights. Women recently lost some of that protection. The exact reason the first 10 amendments are literally called the Bill of Rights. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 305 #63 October 29 29 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi tk, Re: The USA has never managed to pass the Equal Rights Amendment I am no Constitutional expert. The last that I read [ a few yrs ago ] is that that amendment is still out there waiting on [ I 'think' ] just two more states to ratify it. Jerry Baumchen Hey, Jerry, We had a state (or two) recently ratify it, so we have enough. I have heard some argue that there was a time limit on ratification, so we would need to start over getting the states to agree to it. Technically this administration can just declare the win and it gets added to the Constitution (according to legal pundits I have heard on several chat shows/ podcasts). I also am not an expert by any stretch, but I listen to experts. Not sure why the current administration has not done so yet. Tanya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,338 #64 October 29 20 minutes ago, TriGirl said: Hey, Jerry, We had a state (or two) recently ratify it, so we have enough. I have heard some argue that there was a time limit on ratification, so we would need to start over getting the states to agree to it. Technically this administration can just declare the win and it gets added to the Constitution (according to legal pundits I have heard on several chat shows/ podcasts). I also am not an expert by any stretch, but I listen to experts. Not sure why the current administration has not done so yet. Tanya Hi Tanya, I'm with you. I would hope Biden would declare it 'done & dusted' before he leaves office. And, thanks for the update. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 328 #65 October 29 2 hours ago, brenthutch said: The Constitution does not lay down rights, it lays down limitations on government. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." we accept your apology Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 432 #66 October 29 1 hour ago, tkhayes said: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." we accept your apology For what? BTW thank you for reinforcing my point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,338 #67 November 4 Hi folks, Expect to see more of this if Trump wins: The day after Calli gave birth to her first child in November 2021, a Coeur d’Alene police officer showed up in her hospital room. Since Dobbs, Idaho mothers increasingly accused of child abuse while pregnant - OPB If Trump wins, will we become a country like East Germany was. Where you could not trust anyone to not 'rat' you out to the Stasi? Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites