Abortion Commentary

[kallend 1,935]

8 hours ago, rushmc said:

I have not even talked about abortion. Please focus

Read the title of this thread before making any more stupid comments.

[tkhayes 327]

12 hours ago, rushmc said:

And in the end, ALL the legal bs against Trump will be thrown out

No it won't.  For example, him stealing money from his charity was 'legal bs' that stands today, 6 years later.

When he loses the election, the trials roll on.  But, hey you seem confident... wanna put some money on what is going away?  I mean you think ALL of it is, so let's bet on that.  I will even let you make the list.

[tkhayes 327]

12 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

As most of you know, I am a very strong supporter of a woman's right to abortion.  I also donate to NARAL every year.

Since the Dobbs decision, slowly but surely, we are winning back the right to an abortion.  Slowly, state by state.

However, I do not think that is enough.

IMO every free thinking woman in this country should get involved; here is one opportunity:  Defend Democracy - Emerge

Jerry Baumchen

I will never understand the contraction between bodily autonomy automatically applied to anything and everything men can do and the completely removal of bodily autonomy for women

Cannot help but think that the 'christian values' as well as historical factors of women being 'less than men' are in play here.  And many of those historical factors are also deeply rooted in religion of all kinds. 

The USA has never managed to pass the Equal Rights Amendment, women still make less money than men, we elected a black man before we would elect a woman.  And so on.

I expect that if men could get pregnant, you would be able to get an abortion at a drive through 7-Eleven

No one and nothing (a fetus or embryo) has the right to use another person's body for its own survival, without that person's permission. It is absolutely a rights issue, a privacy issue, a bodily autonomy issue, and frankly, I am tired of the attitude and the lack of any respect for a woman's right to her own body.  If we (they) do not have that right, then what are we?

[JoeWeber 2,688]

9 hours ago, nigel99 said:

I’m always interested in hearing viewpoints though. I have one friend who is pro trump and some reasonably sane explanations for a few things. But so far he’s the only person who seems to have a semi coherent argument. There’s nothing we agree on though 

Third party is better than no party, I reckon. Do tell, what are your friends reasonably sane explanations?

[wmw999 2,382]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Third party is better than no party, I reckon. Do tell, what are your friends reasonably sane explanations?

I also have friends like that. They see the number of undocumented aliens as a far bigger problem than I do -- but most of them live in Texas, where it is a bigger problem. Of course, it's also a source of inexpensive labor, keeping housing costs low, right? 

But most of my right-wing friends value loyalty far, far, more than I do; loyalty to how you were brought up, loyalty to traditions that others you associate with value, loyalty to the idea of country.

And it seems that the outward expression is what counts most; what's inside (other than "I'm spiritual, not religious). It's visible, and it helps to identify what people stand for. Because, above much, it seems that my more conservative friends are, in fact, more tribal, in the proto-human way that banding together allows for easier survival as a species. In a world as crowded as ours, you have to know who is, and, about as important, who isn't a part of your tribe. 

I'm a member of one tribe for that group, and actively invited to and welcomed at those events. But I don't participate in the political discussions other than one-on-one, because there's just no future in it. Most of them will die before changing, and since they're largely older than I am, that's happening. It'll happen to me, too, someday.

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,688]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I also have friends like that. They see the number of undocumented aliens as a far bigger problem than I do -- but most of them live in Texas, where it is a bigger problem. Of course, it's also a source of inexpensive labor, keeping housing costs low, right? 

But most of my right-wing friends value loyalty far, far, more than I do; loyalty to how you were brought up, loyalty to traditions that others you associate with value, loyalty to the idea of country.

And it seems that the outward expression is what counts most; what's inside (other than "I'm spiritual, not religious). It's visible, and it helps to identify what people stand for. Because, above much, it seems that my more conservative friends are, in fact, more tribal, in the proto-human way that banding together allows for easier survival as a species. In a world as crowded as ours, you have to know who is, and, about as important, who isn't a part of your tribe. 

I'm a member of one tribe for that group, and actively invited to and welcomed at those events. But I don't participate in the political discussions other than one-on-one, because there's just no future in it. Most of them will die before changing, and since they're largely older than I am, that's happening. It'll happen to me, too, someday.

Wendy P.

Interesting. But to my ear what’s missing are thoughtfulness and rationality in their reasons. 

[brenthutch 431]

On 10/28/2024 at 1:33 PM, kallend said:

It's pretty sad that you think the only rights we have are those laid down in the Constitution (as amended).  That puts the US population way behind all of the EU, and the non  EU European nations, as well as every country that references the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in its consttution (the US does not).. 

The Constitution does not lay down rights, it lays down limitations on government.

[nigel99 412]

4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Third party is better than no party, I reckon. Do tell, what are your friends reasonably sane explanations?

Please bear in mind I am passing on his views and these aren’t my own! I’m not going to defend them :)

To start with he believes that Trump brings a fresh perspective to politics, by not being a career politician. While he accepts that Trump is vulgar and that his ‘presentation’ is less than ideal, he challenges the political structures. 

He agrees with the tough immigration stance and the ‘America first’ attitude of promoting internal business and discouraging business from manufacturing outside the US.

The last point is that most politicians and wealthy businessmen break the rules and are corrupt to some extent. He believes that because Trump challenged the political establishment, he has been disproportionately pursued for crimes. He doesn’t say he is innocent, but rather the energy spent on Trump is more than others. 

Trump (especially of late), just blurts things out and has no impulse control. However, he also sees it as a form of ‘gaslighting’ to successfully implement policies. For example , suggesting 200% tariffs. He doesn’t believe Trump is stupid enough to believe or do that, but by setting the conversation there, he manages to implement say 5-10% tariffs with no resistance.

This friend a very successful sales manager, in a trade Industry supplying building contractors , where it’s normal to take clients to strip clubs etc. Trump’s crassness is not seen as out of the ordinary but rather as a ‘typical bloke’ 

[jakee 1,441]

29 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

The Constitution does not lay down rights, it lays down limitations on government.

Good to see you on the liberal team. Kindly explain to your right wing colleague where he made his mistake, he might listen to you.

[JerryBaumchen 1,338]

6 hours ago, tkhayes said:

I will never understand the contraction between bodily autonomy automatically applied to anything and everything men can do and the completely removal of bodily autonomy for women

Cannot help but think that the 'christian values' as well as historical factors of women being 'less than men' are in play here.  And many of those historical factors are also deeply rooted in religion of all kinds. 

The USA has never managed to pass the Equal Rights Amendment, women still make less money than men, we elected a black man before we would elect a woman.  And so on.

I expect that if men could get pregnant, you would be able to get an abortion at a drive through 7-Eleven

No one and nothing (a fetus or embryo) has the right to use another person's body for its own survival, without that person's permission. It is absolutely a rights issue, a privacy issue, a bodily autonomy issue, and frankly, I am tired of the attitude and the lack of any respect for a woman's right to her own body.  If we (they) do not have that right, then what are we?

Hi tk,

Re:  The USA has never managed to pass the Equal Rights Amendment

I am no Constitutional expert.  The last that I read [ a few yrs ago ] is that that amendment is still out there waiting on [ I 'think' ] just two more states to ratify it.

Re:  I expect that if men could get pregnant, you would be able to get an abortion at a drive through 7-Eleven

Bingo, you nailed it.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,893]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

The Constitution does not lay down rights, it lays down limitations on government.

Exactly right.  It protects the government from infringing on your rights.  Women recently lost some of that protection.

[TriGirl 302]

27 minutes ago, billvon said:

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

The Constitution does not lay down rights, it lays down limitations on government.

Exactly right.  It protects the government from infringing on your rights.  Women recently lost some of that protection.

The exact reason the first 10 amendments are literally called the Bill of Rights.

[TriGirl 302]

29 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi tk,

Re:  The USA has never managed to pass the Equal Rights Amendment

I am no Constitutional expert.  The last that I read [ a few yrs ago ] is that that amendment is still out there waiting on [ I 'think' ] just two more states to ratify it.

 

Jerry Baumchen

Hey, Jerry,

We had a state (or two) recently ratify it, so we have enough. I have heard some argue that there was a time limit on ratification, so we would need to start over getting the states to agree to it.  Technically this administration can just declare the win and it gets added to the Constitution (according to legal pundits I have heard on several chat shows/ podcasts).  I also am not an expert by any stretch, but I listen to experts.  Not sure why the current administration has not done so yet.

Tanya

[JerryBaumchen 1,338]

20 minutes ago, TriGirl said:

Hey, Jerry,

We had a state (or two) recently ratify it, so we have enough. I have heard some argue that there was a time limit on ratification, so we would need to start over getting the states to agree to it.  Technically this administration can just declare the win and it gets added to the Constitution (according to legal pundits I have heard on several chat shows/ podcasts).  I also am not an expert by any stretch, but I listen to experts.  Not sure why the current administration has not done so yet.

Tanya

Hi Tanya,

I'm with you.  I would hope Biden would declare it 'done & dusted' before he leaves office.

And, thanks for the update.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[tkhayes 327]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

The Constitution does not lay down rights, it lays down limitations on government.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

we accept your apology

[brenthutch 431]

1 hour ago, tkhayes said:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

we accept your apology

For what? BTW thank you for reinforcing my point.

[JerryBaumchen 1,338]

Hi folks,

Expect to see more of this if Trump wins:  The day after Calli gave birth to her first child in November 2021, a Coeur d’Alene police officer showed up in her hospital room.

Since Dobbs, Idaho mothers increasingly accused of child abuse while pregnant - OPB

If Trump wins, will we become a country like East Germany was.  Where you could not trust anyone to not 'rat' you out to the Stasi?

Jerry Baumchen