switching to ellipticals?

[ridebmxbikes 0]

what is the average jump number people usually start jumping ellipticals? I've been on a sabre1 20 at 1.26 and lately have had three people suggest their katana120 for me to try. not sure if that would be a good move yet.

[gowlerk 1,903]

It depends what you want out of a canopy. You need to decide that yourself. But a Katana is not the best learner canopy. I'd suggest a Stiletto type canopy first. Everything happens pretty quickly under a Katana, because they are trimmed so steep. Why do you want an elliptical? Is it just because it's being offered? Or do you feel ready?

To directly answer your question, there is no average. Many people never make that move. But in my case 200 jumps. I went from a Cruislite to a Stiletto at about 1.1:1. Elliptical canopies are way more fun, but have several bad habits.

If you are confident that your friends are giving you good coaching, it's alright to try it. It will help you decide what you want. But I will say that if you aren't sure you are ready, then you aren't ready to switch. But trying one and switching to one are not the same thing

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[hokierower 0]

If you have to ask, you shouldn't be considering it.

Try a Sabre2. Different canopy than the Sabre but a great wing to learn under.

[voilsb 1]

omnomnom

Ok, I think conventional wisdom says something about 500ish jumps before jumping a wing like that. It's not a rule, though.

More importantly: do you want to switch to a katana or other elliptical canopy? If no, then don't. That simple.
If yes, then ask yourself: why? What do you hope to get out of that wing you can't on your current one?

And if yes, some more conventional wisdom says don't rush. For the sake of conversation I'll assume you can fly your current canopy pretty well in any situation. Try an intermediate wing like a Sabre2 107 or even another 120 and add weights if it's not zippy enough. And try coaching. I hear it's not just for girls.

Brian

[ridebmxbikes 0]

gowlerk

It depends what you want out of a canopy. You need to decide that yourself. But a Katana is not the best learner canopy. I'd suggest a Stiletto type canopy first. Everything happens pretty quickly under a Katana, because they are trimmed so steep. Why do you want an elliptical? Is it just because it's being offered? Or do you feel ready?

To directly answer your question, there is no average. Many people never make that move. But in my case 200 jumps. I went from a Cruislite to a Stiletto at about 1.1:1. Elliptical canopies are way more fun, but have several bad habits.

If you are confident that your friends are giving you good coaching, it's alright to try it. It will help you decide what you want. But I will say that if you aren't sure you are ready, then you aren't ready to switch. But trying one and switching to one are not the same thing

well as i've never jumped an elliptical before not sure entirely what they are about except they are highly more responsive and the ones i've read most about dive a lot more. i was considering a xf2 but also didnt really have real thought about it till people offering to let me demo their katanas.

i was looking at the xf2 but everyone keeps saying the way my progression has been going i should be looking at divier canopies. i guess nothing a few demos cant fix.

i feel i would be comfortable on one but then again people have felt comfortable on velos at my stage also. which is the main reason i asked. i didn't want to end up being that guy getting the dirty looks

[gowlerk 1,903]

From the PD website:

So you’ve decided to step it up from your Sabre2… The Katana is a fully elliptical nine cell canopy that is the ride of a life time for the experienced canopy pilot. Warning: this canopy is not for the faint of heart. Soft smooth openings, long control range, steep dive, light front riser pressure and powerful flare make the Katana an excellent choice for those looking for the engine to push their limits. Whether you’re considering an 83 or a 170 square foot wing, the Katana can provide the canopy enthusiast with the ride they are looking for now, and will continue to challenge their piloting skills for years to come. The Katana may look similar to a Stiletto at first glance, but beneath the surface they are two completely different machines!


That's what they say. Here's what I say FWIW, which really isn't that much.

Not all elliptical canopies are the same. Katana is a more advanced and extreme canopy and not really suited to intermediate pilots. But that still doesn't mean you can't try it, just that you need to get good coaching, choose a time with good conditions including when you feel sharp, and know that you need to be wary. But if a less aggressive wing is available, that would be a better experience for you because you would be able to have more fun and less stress.

I don't know you and I don't know why your friends would push you in this direction so quickly, but the wisest pilots I know say that you don't need to downsize/upgrade until you are getting the maximum out of what you are already flying. Now granted, a Sabre one is an older design and you may very well have begun to outgrow it, but probably not to the max. Ellipticals are more fun, no doubt about it. Like switching from a station wagon to a sports car. But a Katana is a huge step, more like 2 or 3 steps up. Still doesn't mean you can't try it, just don't get fooled.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[yoink 321]

ridebmxbikes

what is the average jump number people usually start jumping ellipticals? I've been on a sabre1 20 at 1.26 and lately have had three people suggest their katana120 for me to try. not sure if that would be a good move yet.

Assuming I'm reading this right, then no, goign from a Sabre 120 to a Katana 120 isn't a good move.

The Sabre is a much older, more docile design. It's not like going from a Sabre 2 120 to a Katana... definitely take a step between the two.

[DocPop 1]

You don't have to change canopies. You never have to jump an elliptical.

Personally I am focused on CP and went from a SA2 150 to a KA135 at 150 jumps. It was a BIG jump and although I have not had any issues that is probably due to a combination of luck and the fact that all my jumps are CP oriented (high pulls and HnPs).

If you don't have a clear idea as to why you want to go to a Katana, then I would advise you not to for the simple reason that it has drawbacks. The openings have more potential to mess you about than a non-elliptical and it is trimmed so steep that you may find getting back from long spots an issue.

Canopies are designed with a specific purpose in mind (hence the huge range marketed by PD). Choose the right tool for the job you have in mind. You wouldn't want to turn up at a knife-fight with a spoon!

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[mircan 0]

Quote

what is the average jump number people usually start jumping ellipticals?

I started jumping XF2 at 600+ jumps (and pounded in 50 jumps later).

IMO, if your jump numbers are correct, it`s too early for you.

But, you`ll probably do it your way in the end. So if you do, go for the XF2, not the Katana. Better openings, more glide and little less dive, which will probably keep you alive longer.

dudeist skydiver #42

[Zlew 0]

This is one of those questions that might not have a right answer. There are so many variables. How well do you fly...how well do you understand your wings...what are you looking for out of your canopy etc. None of which can really be answered via the net.

I started on elliptical around 200 jumps. I think today most would recommend a few more than that.

One thing to consider at low jump numbers and going to a Katana. I assume many may disagree, but going to something like a stiletto you are just changing your planform, but going to a Katana you are going a few steps further. Not sure if this makes any sense, but something like a stiletto is like a Sabre+, and a Katana is more like a Velo- . It is more than just the elliptical shape of the wing. I've never jumped a wing that is more responsive on front risers or dives as readily as my Katana (more than my velo). PD says the Katana is slightly less responsive on toggles than a Stiletto, but going from years on the same size stiletto to the same sized Katana...I can't tell a difference in the turn rate or response on toggles. The steep trim, light front riser pressure, and long recovery arc, IMO, make it more than just a "switch to elliptical". Any of those flight characteristics add some risk and will take time to get used to.

Be sure you are ready for it if you go that way.

*edit arch-arc

[Remster 24]

What Zach said.

I've demo'ed most of the non-crossbraced canopies out there in the last couple years, and, by far, the KA is the most aggressive one I tried.

Remster

[ridebmxbikes 0]

lots of great advice on here, i wanna thank you guys for some great posts.

as far as i'm concerned i'm a pretty good pilot(for my jump numbers). i think i'm gonna go ahead and try a katana on a high pull if all the conditions are good at the time, also have another friend that has a xf2 on order that i can try when it comes in.

with saying that, weather i like it or not or whatever i decide im gonna try to get some real canopy coaching on my current wing and see what kind of evaluation the coach gives me. by the time i take care of everything and make a choice i should have a couple more hundred jumps.

thanks for all of your time guys!

[demoknite 0]

My line of thought is if it has a name of something that will maim or kill you like katana, crossfire, mamba it probably will and it's best to stay away.

[yoink 321]

ridebmxbikes

as far as i'm concerned i'm a pretty good pilot(for my jump numbers)

just so you know, pretty much everyone thinks this about themselves.


Statistics suggests you're probably about average. Don't let over confidence put you into bad situations.

[ridebmxbikes 0]

Well as to my skill level Im probably in the intermediate range per pd. One person said try a sabre107. I'm not really looking to down size yet. Id have to say what I would like would be more response and a little more dive with out the downsize. If the katana can dive as much as a velo then Im probably not as ready for it as I can see myself making more mistakes in the future. I don't want to push the envelope quite that far yet but would like to see what else is out there.

[ctrph8 0]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stiletto-120-9-cell-ZP-elliptical-skydiving-parachute-canopy-/321136362014?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac538021e



Just sayin'

[linebckr83 3]

The Sabre 1 is one of the most docile parachutes available.

You've had several people suggest trying out a sabre2. What's wrong with that? It's a great step up and I think you'll be very pleased with it.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[ridebmxbikes 0]

I've flown a sabre2 before but I might try it again since at this stage Im flying a lot differently. I don't know anybody with a stelleto but I here they are a really fun canopy to fly. I guess at this point I just need to try and get my hands on as many different canopies as can to test out the waters. Also if you think a sabre is the most docile canopy there is, you should try a triatalon.

[evan85 0]

ctrph8

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stiletto-120-9-cell-ZP-elliptical-skydiving-parachute-canopy-/321136362014?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac538021e



Just sayin'

Quoted from the eBay page:

Quote

I am guesstimating 700-900 jumps on the wing
the current lineset is severely out of trim
there are a number of small rip stop adhesive tape patches on the top skin center cell
no slider included
Manufactured 10/1993
This would be a good kiting or a project canopy. If you wanted to reline it, and add a slider, you could still jump it, but that's probably not worth the costs involved.

Just sayin'

[nigel99 143]

demoknite

My line of thought is if it has a name of something that will maim or kill you like katana, crossfire, mamba it probably will and it's best to stay away.

To the OP, the difference between a Sabre 1 and 2 is very noticeable.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[ctrph8 0]

Well if you're going to be all picky about it...