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nigel99

wingloading choice

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One other thing I have noticed- Many people who fly light to mid wing loadings spend the majority of their time at full flight. People who fly at higher wing loadings spend more time in the middle of their speed range (brakes and or rears).

I fly in brakes a lot. If I am in the middle of the pattern or traffic, I can choose to let it fly and beat everyone down, or slow things down and let the lighter loaded canopies land before me. It may sound unusual, but being comfortable flying slowly makes flying a "faster" wing much less daunting. The fast canopies, in my experience, all will fly like pretty big wings if you slow them down. Last weekend I opened on level with a tandem from another airplane. I put on the brakes and let them land before me without any issue.

They fly well when you don't have the pedal to the metal too :)

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I'm loaded between 1.2 and 1.25 on a Sabre-1 150 depending on what I'm wearing, and time of year. Its still a bit small for my experience level, but I feel safer with the heightened responsiveness in the toggles compared to a 170 or 190, even with the increased speed.



Why do you feel safer?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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bigbearfng

Same here-just under 1.3 on a 170.
I was going to downsize a while ago-however one day with a lot of canopy traffic and shifting winds(and yes better planning would have helped!) I found myself stuck with a downwinder.
I rolled my ass off and walked away just covered in dust-and decided right then I'm never going below a 170!
So think about those less than ideal landings when you want to downsize.....



Totally agree, shortly after being cleared to downsize but while still on the 170 I screwed up a landing. I'm glad all that happened was a cloud of dust and humiliation.

I'm curious about the person who 'feels' safer under the smaller canopy.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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dot_txt

I'm loaded between 1.2 and 1.25 on a Sabre-1 150 depending on what I'm wearing, and time of year. Its still a bit small for my experience level, but I feel safer with the heightened responsiveness in the toggles compared to a 170 or 190, even with the increased speed.



talk to us when you are knocked out and cannot fly the canopy.

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-ftp-

***I'm loaded between 1.2 and 1.25 on a Sabre-1 150 depending on what I'm wearing, and time of year. Its still a bit small for my experience level, but I feel safer with the heightened responsiveness in the toggles compared to a 170 or 190, even with the increased speed.



talk to us when you are knocked out and cannot fly the canopy.

That's a bit of a pointless argument because nobody has any skills or experience when they are unconscious.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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>That's a bit of a pointless argument because nobody has any skills or experience
>when they are unconscious.

Right. But their canopy doesn't care; it will continue to fly at its trim speed whether you are conscious or not under canopy - and that speed depends on both loading and canopy design. This might matter a whole lot to you once your altitude reaches zero and you don't flare.

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billvon

>That's a bit of a pointless argument because nobody has any skills or experience
>when they are unconscious.

Right. But their canopy doesn't care; it will continue to fly at its trim speed whether you are conscious or not under canopy - and that speed depends on both loading and canopy design. This might matter a whole lot to you once your altitude reaches zero and you don't flare.



So what's your point? Nobody should ever jump anything > 0.7 WL?
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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bigbearfng


So think about those less than ideal landings when you want to downsize.....


Or when you do your first jump back after a year and a half layoff, and the pattern gets set downwind with your 1.4 wingload.

That happened for me back in December. Ran it out, but sheesh.
cavete terrae.

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DocPop

***>That's a bit of a pointless argument because nobody has any skills or experience
>when they are unconscious.

Right. But their canopy doesn't care; it will continue to fly at its trim speed whether you are conscious or not under canopy - and that speed depends on both loading and canopy design. This might matter a whole lot to you once your altitude reaches zero and you don't flare.



So what's your point? Nobody should ever jump anything > 0.7 WL?

You've got to go to the original post the person made to see the point. The person stated that he felt 'safer' under a higher wingloading. There are very few circumstances where a 1.3 loading is actually safer than a 1 - you could possibly argue that there are no circumstances where this is true, but I'm leaving it open...
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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its just such a big topic this whole downsizing and "dude whats your wingload" - another funny one is "why do you jump a 7cell" last weekend on another dropzone a guy serious asked me why i jump a boring 7cell, so for many people downsizing and going into high performance canopys seems to be the only reason why they jump.

for myself the whole canopy flying stuff wasnt that important and i doubt it will be in future, because i got my plans why i jump a larger 7cell canopy.

since downsizing became mainstream im planing upsizing to a 280 troll instead !B|:P

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DocPop

***>That's a bit of a pointless argument because nobody has any skills or experience
>when they are unconscious.

Right. But their canopy doesn't care; it will continue to fly at its trim speed whether you are conscious or not under canopy - and that speed depends on both loading and canopy design. This might matter a whole lot to you once your altitude reaches zero and you don't flare.



So what's your point? Nobody should ever jump anything > 0.7 WL?

you can't be this ignorant...I mean do we really need to lay out the difference to you?

The poster said "I feel safer under a higher wingloading" what do you think is "safer" (ie, less chance of smashing your limp body into the ground with no flare) if you happen to be incapacitated, a reserve with a 1.4:1 WL or around a 1:1?

If you feel the need to argue this, then there is no hope for you.

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-ftp-

******>That's a bit of a pointless argument because nobody has any skills or experience
>when they are unconscious.

Right. But their canopy doesn't care; it will continue to fly at its trim speed whether you are conscious or not under canopy - and that speed depends on both loading and canopy design. This might matter a whole lot to you once your altitude reaches zero and you don't flare.





So what's your point? Nobody should ever jump anything > 0.7 WL?

you can't be this ignorant...I mean do we really need to lay out the difference to you?

The poster said "I feel safer under a higher wingloading" what do you think is "safer" (ie, less chance of smashing your limp body into the ground with no flare) if you happen to be incapacitated, a reserve with a 1.4:1 WL or around a 1:1?

If you feel the need to argue this, then there is no hope for you.

Of course I understand that. But what I am saying is that this argument is independent of experience.

If you're saying that the reserve should be sized for an unconscious landing (which I don't agree with) then everyone should be jumping reserves at well under WL of 1.0
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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DocPop

*********>That's a bit of a pointless argument because nobody has any skills or experience
>when they are unconscious.

Right. But their canopy doesn't care; it will continue to fly at its trim speed whether you are conscious or not under canopy - and that speed depends on both loading and canopy design. This might matter a whole lot to you once your altitude reaches zero and you don't flare.





So what's your point? Nobody should ever jump anything > 0.7 WL?

you can't be this ignorant...I mean do we really need to lay out the difference to you?

The poster said "I feel safer under a higher wingloading" what do you think is "safer" (ie, less chance of smashing your limp body into the ground with no flare) if you happen to be incapacitated, a reserve with a 1.4:1 WL or around a 1:1?

If you feel the need to argue this, then there is no hope for you.

Of course I understand that. But what I am saying is that this argument is independent of experience.

If you're saying that the reserve should be sized for an unconscious landing (which I don't agree with) then everyone should be jumping reserves at well under WL of 1.0

Ok you're right.

To the poster about the higher wingloading: you say you feel safer with the toggle response of the higher loaded canopy. Do you have the same canopy for the main and reserve? If not you are aware I am sure that the flight characteristics are likely different.

Also food for thought if you are willing to at least listen and think about changing your thinking, unlike some people. Finding yourself unconscious/incapacitated/paralyzed under a reserve is not that far out of the question. It has happend before, it will happen again, if it were you would you prefer to have a higher wing loading or lower? How about having to land out, with tight clearings? Do you want a high WL or low?

Food for though, but listen to DocPop, he seems to have it all figured out :)

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