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Whamie

A packers tip question

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popsjumper

***Ditto what NW said-- I usually tip $1 a pack job, and I try to buy them lunch/dinner/beer/whatever.




...AND dinner???
Heck, just throw 'em the $1 and a side of beef and stand back.
;)

Packers...it's where the designation 'pack animals' comes from.
:D:D


LOL! Yea, if it's so busy they can't even leave to go grab lunch, I'll try to bring them something. All I know is my rig opens super nice most of the time, and my stuff is usually done before I come in looking for it. :)
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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Another side benefit is that, as you are packing, you are checking for potential problems that could be avoided.
-frayed lines
-twisted brake lines
-tears/damage to the canopy
-bridle and PC wear
-etc.



Quite right! A packer is very unlikely to care about checking for twisted steering lines, which I think is a primary cause of knotted line type malfunctions. A packer isn't going to be nearly as careful at setting the brakes, stowing the excess, and many other things where being careful and neat can make a difference.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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sundevil777

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Another side benefit is that, as you are packing, you are checking for potential problems that could be avoided.
-frayed lines
-twisted brake lines
-tears/damage to the canopy
-bridle and PC wear
-etc.



Quite right! A packer is very unlikely to care about checking for twisted steering lines, which I think is a primary cause of knotted line type malfunctions. A packer isn't going to be nearly as careful at setting the brakes, stowing the excess, and many other things where being careful and neat can make a difference.




Are you saying that someone who's trying to pack as MANY rigs in the shortest amount of time as possible ...may miss something? :o:ph34r:;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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sundevil777

A packer isn't going to be nearly as careful at setting the brakes, stowing the excess, and many other things where being careful and neat can make a difference.



I'm about 50/50 between using a packer and packing for myself, but it's for exactly this reason that I always do the following myself: set brakes, stow excess brake line, and un-collapse slider. I sometimes cock my pilot chute on the way out of the packing area too, but this is less of an issue because I always check the pin and blue ink on the kill line after a pack job (and you better believe it's not me that's going to take it apart and repack it if my pilot chute isn't cocked!).

Some thing you need to know are done right. I'm fine with taking the extra 30 seconds it takes to do these steps myself to know for sure that they are done, and done correctly.

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We don't tip, period.

We have a flat "club controlled rate". So, anyone can walk in and start packing, if the owner of the gear allows.

It simplifies things.
You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

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Since everyone else is scared shitless of the opposing view point ,...here goes....


Is having professional packers a good idea for the sport. (Period?)

Is having someone else pack for you because you can't pack or just can't pack well, or you don't understand your gear a good idea?

What happens to the sport caused by all of the people who can afford to have packers,...

I mean "show up at the DZ, jump, pay for packing, and then move on by 2 pm,...to your next engagment?

Jumping for these types is just a distraction or the vouge thing to do because it's popular, and then move on...

I've notice some disturbing trends of late and I think having professional packers just supports this disturbing trend? Just an opinion...

I call it "Catering" to the rich and famous? packers exsist for those tandem mills, for the camera jumpers. So that they can make money.

Arnet we confusing tipping with sport?

I remember the old usa comps where we had volunteeer packers! That was sport, and not a buisness!!! Some point out that having pro packers enables them to ackomplish more. But I point out dosent that then put you into the same sort of mindset of some kind of pro team? Where is the sport in a pro team? Pro sports has changed sports in americka and not for the better in m opinion. Been to a major league game lately? $1,000.00 boxes, 6 dollar hot dogs and NO kids, NO families...NO SPORT anymore. Unless you consider getting drunk, eating shit, etc., in front of your big screen is sport? Football players who are murder's as role models?

Ya I'm on a tear with this one, and I love my packers as people, :)
Another view is that some packers can pack in less than 5 min! If they really hustle they can then get 12? more? rigs per hour? That's consideerably more than I make! Why am i tipping the rich? Never mind the safety issue that more than a few of you have raised?

So then they are professionals! Why am I tipping them?

You tip the chashire at Whalmart?

You tip the guy (poor example) who puts gas in your car?

You tip the cop for giving you a speeding ticket?


This is a sport?


What if every packer went on strike? Would jumping stop?

You can burn me at the stake later....

C
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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ChrisD


Arnet we confusing tipping with sport?



Ya I'm on a tear with this one, and I love my packers as people, :)
Another view is that some packers can pack in less than 5 min! If they really hustle they can then get 12? more? rigs per hour? That's consideerably more than I make! Why am i tipping the rich? Never mind the safety issue that more than a few of you have raised?

So then they are professionals! Why am I tipping them?

You tip the chashire at Whalmart?

You tip the guy (poor example) who puts gas in your car?

You tip the cop for giving you a speeding ticket?


This is a sport?


What if every packer went on strike? Would jumping stop?

You can burn me at the stake later....

C


12 rigs an hour ... when we're flying. How much do you make in your office while it's raining outside? So myopic.

Professionals? It's a service industry. It is customary to tip service workers. You want to be on every 20? Cool, tip me when I get you on every damn load you want to be on while juggling the 7 other up jumpers I have while keeping tandems on the wall and unfucking student rigs all day.

You come off like a total c*unt here.

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And for god's sake if you just bought new gear and did the whole brand new canopy one size bigger than the container is made for so you can downsize 2 times in the same container and you want me to shove 20 pounds of snot into a 10 pound sack all day long so you can make 20s --- tip dammit. You have 8k to spend on gear, you can give me 8 bucks a pj, ya cheap, lazy bastard.

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You come off like a total c*unt here.



You pretty much proved in part, the point he was trying to make.

IF you can pack 12 rigs an hour...that's less than 5 minutes per rig.

So you're saying a rig can be safely packed in 4 minutes if you know what you're doing...ok fine.

I don't know ANY skydivers (save pro-teams & camera workers) that don't have 5 minutes between their next load to pack their own rig.

SO...it just might BE the 'rich & famous' attitude that feeds this 'service industry' after all?










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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airtwardo

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You come off like a total c*unt here.



You pretty much proved in part, the point he was trying to make.

IF you can pack 12 rigs an hour...that's less than 5 minutes per rig.

So you're saying a rig can be safely packed in 4 minutes if you know what you're doing...ok fine.

I don't know ANY skydivers (save pro-teams & camera workers) that don't have 5 minutes between their next load to pack their own rig.

SO...it just might BE the 'rich & famous' attitude that feeds this 'service industry' after all?


I actually agreed with the rich and famous and bad for the sport comments, hence why they weren't in the quote.

But to ask why you are tipping me. Am I a walmart checker? Can a walmart checker ruin your day (or your life) if he screws up his job? Can you ask a walmart checker to do you a favor and skip you to the front of the line and zip thru your checkout process because you have other stores to get to? It's a ridiculously false analogy.

Looking at how many I can pack in a hour and doing some quick math and assuming that I'm rich is silly. Weather, taxes, airplanes go down, seasonal issues, etc etc. It's not a 9-5.


I agree with the rest of what he said. I do some packing for plenty of the rich and a few of the famous. I don't disagree one bit.

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I am currently working full time as a packer on a big dropzone i Europe. The tip varies a lot. Some don't give any tip and others are very generous. Americans are usually more generous than the average.
A tip is always kindly accepted because we always make sure that the jumpers' kit is ready to jump before the next load even if we have to work much harder than what a regular no-rush-pack job requires. If a packer promises to have a kit ready and for some reason it is not, I can understand why a tip would not be given. But otherwise I don't see anything wrong with tipping.

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I like to pack myself but do use one occasionally to make lunch, etc... It is nice to tip if you do not use one much, 2 or 3 dollars. they get hot, and tired from bending knees.

but... they like to pack fast and many to make much money.
more likely to make small mistake.

I like to know for sure: Flaked properly so no line over
brakes set properly...no brake fire....
excess stowed properly.... no entanglement with anything
slider uncollapse and quartered to best placement.. for softness
pilot chute cocked and placed properly, proper closing loop tighness.

That is my 2 dollars worth.

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Looking at how many I can pack in a hour and doing some quick math and assuming that I'm rich is silly. Weather, taxes, airplanes go down, seasonal issues, etc etc. It's not a 9-5.



Oh I understand the economics of it...and yeah, not a lotta packers drivin' new Porsches. ;)

I could be wrong..but I didn't take that post's intent as anti-tipping so much as questioning that necessity of having a packer (for most people) in the 1st place.

Nothing against you or any other packers out there...but there IS some validity to that point from an 'old school' enthusiasts stand.

It is what it is...Packers are here to stay.

I don't use them but I also don't despise them or the people that DO use them. It's just another rather interesting turn in the sport...there are valid arguments on boths sides regarding if it's a step forward or back.

But back to the point - I do agree that good service deserves a little sumptin' sumptin' for the EFFORT! ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I could be wrong..but I didn't take that post's intent as anti-tipping so much as questioning that necessity of having a packer (for most people) in the 1st place.




This is where I think most people are not understanding this the same way I am-- why are folks automatically assuming since somebody is paying for packing that it's a necessity for whatever reason (because they don't know how,never learned, forgot how to pack, etc).

As I stated in my earlier post-- it's a luxury and a privilege, just like going out for a meal is. Do you guys (and this is an open question not directed at you, airtwardo) also look down your noses at people who go out to eat or pay for any service that isn't a necessity? Can you look me in the eye and tell me you never go out for food, get a car wash, get a massage, have movers help you when you move, etc?
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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LyraM45

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I could be wrong..but I didn't take that post's intent as anti-tipping so much as questioning that necessity of having a packer (for most people) in the 1st place.




This is where I think most people are not understanding this the same way I am-- why are folks automatically assuming since somebody is paying for packing that it's a necessity for whatever reason (because they don't know how,never learned, forgot how to pack, etc).

As I stated in my earlier post-- it's a luxury and a privilege, just like going out for a meal is. Do you guys (and this is an open question not directed at you, airtwardo) also look down your noses at people who go out to eat or pay for any service that isn't a necessity? Can you look me in the eye and tell me you never go out for food, get a car wash, get a massage, have movers help you when you move, etc?




I see it as a convenience not a luxury or a privilege.

And like I said before...I don't care either way, just that it's an interesting change. When I played football I cleaned my own spikes, in baseball I oiled my own glove. Knowing the exact condition of my 'tools' was important to me. Times change I guess.

Perhaps a bit off topic - but I rather take pride in MY cooking as well as enjoy detailing my cars & bike. It's a luxury to be able to do that, it's a convenience to have someone else do it.


...and bottom line, when I do it, I know it's done right! B|










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I hear you-- and my husband is the same exact way with everything. He'd rather have it done himself. Me? I don't mind treating myself when I need a break. Back to the dinner thing-- I love cooking. I cook a lot, and cook very involved meals that aren't quick. But, I also like to go out and get dinner and catch a that break. Yes, it's convenient more than anything on some nights, but it doesn't mean I don't know how to cook, or am too lazy to cook, or was never taught to cook. I just choose convenience that night, and when I choose it, I also make sure to take care of the people who gave me that service I opted for. ;)
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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I hope your packer is trained to spot any defects or components that are past their service life?


The above, while some of you are turning the spit, and thanks for takeing the apple out of my mouth for a moment so that I can point this little ditty out....

Have packers with no training or experience whatsoever...

I'm on the Coast for the weekend...that's LA for a day or so and guess what!!!!????? I try to visit places I haven't visited in years, and guesss what????

Interns at a popular DZ,...now I might be inclined to name names, but this is more common than we realize!

Are your packers jumpers?

Well I'm fucking sitten here looking at more than a few "packers" and DZ staff, laudably working twords the day they can afford their AFF class....and I'm keeping my mouth shut.... cause I'm a guest here... :P

But their packing!

So sombody please use the C word again while the rest of you turn the spit and stoke the coals and somebody please tell me that it's ok for non-juimpers to pack my rig?

Other than that I'll just put the apple back in my mouth,...


and no I'm not done yet....


CB|

And quite frankly I have no intention to start tipping the check out person...

They are there to make money! They are not my friends, I don't want to have a beer with them, they literally could give a shit whether I live or die, they won't come to my funeeral, nor will the majority of them stop packing to give free advice, nor will they come running if I loose my cutaway main.....When the plane stops flying who's left standing at the dz at the end of the day?


And since I'm on a roll who was it that mentioned ZP? Ya that makes a lot of sense: Buy a canopy that you know you can't pack??? :S
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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ChrisD

I hope your packer is trained to spot any defects or components that are past their service life?


The above, while some of you are turning the spit, and thanks for takeing the apple out of my mouth for a moment so that I can point this little ditty out....

Have packers with no training or experience whatsoever...

I'm on the Coast for the weekend...that's LA for a day or so and guess what!!!!????? I try to visit places I haven't visited in years, and guesss what????

Interns at a popular DZ,...now I might be inclined to name names, but this is more common than we realize!

Are your packers jumpers?

Well I'm fucking sitten here looking at more than a few "packers" and DZ staff, laudably working twords the day they can afford their AFF class....and I'm keeping my mouth shut.... cause I'm a guest here... :P

But their packing!

So sombody please use the C word again while the rest of you turn the spit and stoke the coals and somebody please tell me that it's ok for non-juimpers to pack my rig?

Other than that I'll just put the apple back in my mouth,...


and no I'm not done yet....


CB|

And quite frankly I have no intention to start tipping the check out person...

They are there to make money! They are not my friends, I don't want to have a beer with them, they literally could give a shit whether I live or die, they won't come to my funeeral, nor will the majority of them stop packing to give free advice, nor will they come running if I loose my cutaway main.....When the plane stops flying who's left standing at the dz at the end of the day?


And since I'm on a roll who was it that mentioned ZP? Ya that makes a lot of sense: Buy a canopy that you know you can't pack??? :S




You are taking something and running waaaayyyy into left field with it!

First and foremost-- EVERYBODY should be inspecting their shit whether you use a packer or not. Before I lay it out for a packer I am checking my breaklines, stows, toggles, canopy lines, canopy, bags, rig, and I make sure everything is stowed and slider unstowed before I lay it down for my packer. It's nice if your packer also checks that stuff, but it's not his responsibility, and I know that when I "hire" him. So, be responsible for your own shit like you should be. And then check it again when you pick the rig back up. If anything happens it's your fault, whether you used a packer or not. End of story.

1.) packers with no experience-- good for you if you want to use a packer with no experience, or somebody who just started packing yesterday. I personally vet my packers and get to know them before committing to them. I'm pretty sure many others do the same, at least at my dz they do. Also, if you see people packing on a mat who are not signed off and/or not under the supervision of the proper people on the mat, then say something. You're just as equally part of the problem by sitting there and letting it happen.

2.) spitting on the coals-- because I didn't give you a courtesy reach around and completely agree with you, that is spitting on the coals? You've got to get a thicker skin, mate! People are not always going to agree with you, and in this case lots of people didn't say you were completely wrong, but instead just didn't agree with you all the way. You basically said in your original post, "people are going to give me shit for my stance," and now you're upset that you got some? Get over it.

3.) Who said you're supposed to tip a walmart check out person? You're the only person who brought that up, and I responded (and another person as well) with a scenario where you tip a person from the service industry like a bar tender or waitress-- yet you completely choose to not tackle that one and brought the walmart worker back into the equation, which most people will agree with you that you don't tip. So.....how about that waiter or waitress instead of the walmart checkout?
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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airtwardo

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spitting on the coals-- because I didn't give you a courtesy reach around and completely agree with you, that is spitting on the coals?





Okay...THAT's Funny! :D



I try ;)
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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Wanna give a good extra tip?
- set your brakes;
- uncollapse your slider and PC
- check line continuity
They'll appreciate it as much as money. Also, take the canopy home unpacked and practice until you get good at it
Have fun!
Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

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ChrisD

Since everyone else is scared shitless of the opposing view point ,...here goes....


Is having professional packers a good idea for the sport. (Period?)

Is having someone else pack for you because you can't pack or just can't pack well, or you don't understand your gear a good idea?

What happens to the sport caused by all of the people who can afford to have packers,...

I mean "show up at the DZ, jump, pay for packing, and then move on by 2 pm,...to your next engagment?

Jumping for these types is just a distraction or the vouge thing to do because it's popular, and then move on...

I've notice some disturbing trends of late and I think having professional packers just supports this disturbing trend? Just an opinion...

I call it "Catering" to the rich and famous? packers exsist for those tandem mills, for the camera jumpers. So that they can make money.

Arnet we confusing tipping with sport?

I remember the old usa comps where we had volunteeer packers! That was sport, and not a buisness!!! Some point out that having pro packers enables them to ackomplish more. But I point out dosent that then put you into the same sort of mindset of some kind of pro team? Where is the sport in a pro team? Pro sports has changed sports in americka and not for the better in m opinion. Been to a major league game lately? $1,000.00 boxes, 6 dollar hot dogs and NO kids, NO families...NO SPORT anymore. Unless you consider getting drunk, eating shit, etc., in front of your big screen is sport? Football players who are murder's as role models?

Ya I'm on a tear with this one, and I love my packers as people, :)
Another view is that some packers can pack in less than 5 min! If they really hustle they can then get 12? more? rigs per hour? That's consideerably more than I make! Why am i tipping the rich? Never mind the safety issue that more than a few of you have raised?

So then they are professionals! Why am I tipping them?

You tip the chashire at Whalmart?

You tip the guy (poor example) who puts gas in your car?

You tip the cop for giving you a speeding ticket?


This is a sport?


What if every packer went on strike? Would jumping stop?

You can burn me at the stake later....

C



Just cause you cannot afford it....... I got the money, so why not create a job for someone, and relax a bit between jumps. I can still pack, and know my gear inside out, don't get me wrong, ignorant I am not.
You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

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When I started jumping 18years ago, I was completely poor, so packed to help fund my jumping.

I've always packed for myself, but now that I can afford it, I sometimes use a packer, especially if I'm trying to get in as many jumps as in a day as possible.

No one is forcing you to use use one, but why do you care that other people do?
Packers have always been around, and I'm pretty sure they aren't going anywhere!

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