AdamUSN 0 #26 May 29, 2013 I grew up on a dairy farm in Vermont. I have peed on an electric fence before - thanks older brother!! Prick. I have grabbed the fence and touched others - back at ya Brad! If you land in a fenced in area, pull up a piece of grass, lay it over the fence. The water in the grass will transfer the electricity to you but at a lower rate than touching the fence. Good job bein a man/human and apologizing and taking ownership. I worked Military freefall DZ crew many years before jumping. Our farmer Mcnasty had a different story. He has had people burn in on his property. He understands the people that we trained were military and he had a number to call, gave our Soldiers and Sailors rides or allowed them to wait while we picked them up. Like others have said. Some people treated these folks with disrespect and they stereotype everyone the same. Good job my friendIf you do things that don't make you appreciate life than why do them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigMikeH77 0 #27 May 29, 2013 davelepka Not to offend your tacking abilities, but that wasn't part of the problem. At best you tracked a 100 ft or so, and that distance does not make the difference between landing off or on. An opening that is 1/2 second longer, or a change in wind speed by 1mph can easily erase a couple hundred feet of extra altitude or distance you might gain by tracking one direction or the other. . None taken, and you're absolutely right. Another factor that I didn't mention was that the wind had indeed measurably picked up between the time we got a wind check before exit and when we were out and about. Now that I think about it, the drift was certainly a greater factor than my spring-chicken tracking abilities. The other factor was that being toward the back of the load, I could see we were approaching the end of the jump run and should have asked for another go around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #28 May 29, 2013 chuteshack the old Applegarth NJ dropzone used to pay like 20 bucks to the farmers when jumpers landed there. (or so i have heard)it worked except for this one .then one nite that particular farmer decided to plow the pea gravel target under.one of the other farmers saw it and called the NJ State Police.one of the responding Troopers turned out to be Joe Imbriago, an Applegarth jumper... I love it when a plan comes together! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dthames 0 #29 May 29, 2013 I maintain my own dirt/gravel driveway that is about 1/2 mile long. If someone turns down it by mistake, that is fine. When they leave spinning their tires and the $4 a ton gravel that I put on the road, it is not fine. It becomes very personal. To land in a field that someone has “worked” in an effort to be part of their income will quickly became personal to them. This is not fully appreciated by most jumpers, I would guess. Think of how you feel if a stranger is knelt over your rig when you come back from manifest. While they might not be doing anything wrong, their mere presents can trigger an emotional response. Climbing on the fence can also be a sensitive issue as well. Like Twardo suggested, it is time to work to make a friend if possible.Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #30 May 29, 2013 wmw999The only thing I could add to what you did (which was exactly right from what you said) would be to send over a case of beer, or something else (in case he doesn't drink any more), as a thank-you-and-sorry from the dropzone. But if they've done that in the past, it might be that they just don't want to go there again. Wendy P. I wouldn't suggest sending beer. There are folks that would be offended by that gesture and it could just make the situation worse. Consider people who are very religious or alcoholic. The best move for an individual jumpers is to make DZ management aware of the situation and let them handle it. Chances are they've already dealt with McNasty before and know best how to cool him down.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #31 May 29, 2013 monkycndo Once they realize they can get free food and beer, they might not be such a pain in the ass. One of my coworkers used to drop his young daughter off at the DZ to work as a packer. When he saw how cute some of the women jumpers were he started finding excuses to hang around the DZ a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deisel 35 #32 May 30, 2013 davelepka Next, you were not trespassing. You did not willfully venture onto his land, you ended up there as the result of a airborne 'emergency', and you have the protection of the FAA on your side. You are not at risk for any sort of criminal prosecution. I've got to call BS here, sir. I only reply to this because it's a topic that I cover with students frequently. I reject this train of thought and demand proper flight planning. Landing out is not an emergency - it is a result of either poor planning or poor execution. Every off landing that I have personally made, witnessed, or heard about has been preventable. This of course, excludes true emergencies such as a bail out or cut away. If we dissect the chain of events, as you have, the mistakes become evident. IMO - No emergency, just a failure to perform as required. DThe brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #33 May 30, 2013 Deisel*** Next, you were not trespassing. You did not willfully venture onto his land, you ended up there as the result of a airborne 'emergency', and you have the protection of the FAA on your side. You are not at risk for any sort of criminal prosecution. I've got to call BS here, sir. I only reply to this because it's a topic that I cover with students frequently. I reject this train of thought and demand proper flight planning. Landing out is not an emergency - it is a result of either poor planning or poor execution. Every off landing that I have personally made, witnessed, or heard about has been preventable. This of course, excludes true emergencies such as a bail out or cut away. If we dissect the chain of events, as you have, the mistakes become evident. IMO - No emergency, just a failure to perform as required. D Sh*thouse legal statement follows..... No BS. Legally the jumper would likely win that battle, even if the situation wouldn't be classified as an emergency. A skydiver has no ability to extend glide beyond minor manipulation of glide ratio and thus at some point is faced with a landing whether it be where originally intended or not. The FAR's are pretty clear that an airman - which skydivers are as defined by FAR's - is not only allowed to but responsible to land safely if possible. The regs even include a "disclaimer" of sorts that an airman can deviate from any other regs necessary for the purpose of the safety of him or herself and any passengers. "Mistakes" or not, this airman (according to the OP's account) was faced with an other-than-intended landing location. Given those circumstances, the airman did what was necessary to insure a safe landing. If the situation became overly repetitive the feds might want to look at alternative solutions. Otherwise the airman would probably be considered to have the right of way over the property owner. One caveat - the airman might still be responsible for any property damage or personal injury caused by his or her decision to deviate from normal procedures. Remember this. We are "airmen" as defined by the FAR's. What we see as common sense is often different than what is reality. I've had this conversation with FAA folks a dozen times thanks to a McNasty when I ran a DZ. Worked every time.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbo 0 #34 May 30, 2013 Deisel *** Next, you were not trespassing. You did not willfully venture onto his land, you ended up there as the result of a airborne 'emergency', and you have the protection of the FAA on your side. You are not at risk for any sort of criminal prosecution. I've got to call BS here, sir. I only reply to this because it's a topic that I cover with students frequently. I reject this train of thought and demand proper flight planning. Landing out is not an emergency - it is a result of either poor planning or poor execution. Every off landing that I have personally made, witnessed, or heard about has been preventable. This of course, excludes true emergencies such as a bail out or cut away. If we dissect the chain of events, as you have, the mistakes become evident. IMO - No emergency, just a failure to perform as required. D Well to bad we can't all be perfect like some people. I believe that dave was pointing out the legal aspect of the possible encounter. I missed the airport once getting out around 100 of 120 people on the aircraft. I guess it was my bad planning on actually getting out that made me miss...Rainbo TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything "Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #35 May 30, 2013 Rainbo ****** Next, you were not trespassing. You did not willfully venture onto his land, you ended up there as the result of a airborne 'emergency', and you have the protection of the FAA on your side. You are not at risk for any sort of criminal prosecution. I've got to call BS here, sir. I only reply to this because it's a topic that I cover with students frequently. I reject this train of thought and demand proper flight planning. Landing out is not an emergency - it is a result of either poor planning or poor execution. Every off landing that I have personally made, witnessed, or heard about has been preventable. This of course, excludes true emergencies such as a bail out or cut away. If we dissect the chain of events, as you have, the mistakes become evident. IMO - No emergency, just a failure to perform as required. D Well to bad we can't all be perfect like some people. I believe that dave was pointing out the legal aspect of the possible encounter. I missed the airport once getting out around 100 of 120 people on the aircraft. I guess it was my bad planning on actually getting out that made me miss... Who's right, or who's wrong is irrellevent! If you land off, and the land owner objects, Kill Him With Kindness!!!! It works... Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigMikeH77 0 #36 May 30, 2013 Deisel*** Next, you were not trespassing. You did not willfully venture onto his land, you ended up there as the result of a airborne 'emergency', and you have the protection of the FAA on your side. You are not at risk for any sort of criminal prosecution. I've got to call BS here, sir. I only reply to this because it's a topic that I cover with students frequently. I reject this train of thought and demand proper flight planning. Landing out is not an emergency - it is a result of either poor planning or poor execution. Every off landing that I have personally made, witnessed, or heard about has been preventable. This of course, excludes true emergencies such as a bail out or cut away. If we dissect the chain of events, as you have, the mistakes become evident. IMO - No emergency, just a failure to perform as required. D Like most mishaps, whether more serious ones or relatively minor ones, the end result spawned from a chain of events. Some were avoidable (long spot), some were not (wind unexpectedly kicking up)... Even when you take all the factors into consideration, being on Farmer TransAm's property was trespassing. NOW BEFORE ANYONE MOANS OR GROANS - let us remember that there is "trespass" and there is "criminal trespass". Let us say that I had landed in a nice mature patch of strawberries and ruined a few square feet of berry goodness. I could be held liable for the value of those berries, and rightfully so, plus any other actual realized damages. That's why USPA affords us 3rd party liability, yes? However because it's the wind that took me down to strawberry fields, and because I tried my darndest using all my knowledge skill to try to get back home to the DZ, there wasn't any criminal intent. It would be hard to prove that I had intended to land in the crops just to make the farmer's life hard. That's a burden the prosecution would have to mount, and I doubt it could ever happen. Am I on the right track here? The intent issue has been debated at length in other forums I believe... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
