Can an S&TA self-certify for a licence?

[DocPop 1]

Can an S&TA sign their own application form for an A, B, C or D license?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Bertt 0]

This should probably be answered by the USPA - or you could just mail the application and see what response you get.
My guess is there's no language that specifically forbids it, but doing so would be in exceedingly poor taste.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Of course they can. I used to be an ASO. How do you think I got my ratings?

Just joking. I have no idea. Wouldn't most S&TA's have a D license already?

[bill6870 3]

http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Form_Rating_Renewal.pdf

You can not verify your own ratings for renewal. One of the requirements (governance manual 1-4) for being an S&TA is to be a D licence holder.

Blue Skies

[jimjumper 25]

That's not true! While a "D" is recommended I know of at least 2 S&TA's that didn't even jump. The RD can appoint anyone that is a USPA member. A lot of RD's just sign off on whoever the DZO recommends and the DZO uses them for administrative purposes. That has been a problem in the past and will continue to be in the future as long as USPA keeps pushing off Instructional responsibilities on S&TA's. I still find it unbeleivable that USPA is willing to grant more authority to an unrated and unlicensed person than someone they have vetted thru their own instructional rating system.

[BIGUN 1,050]

S&TA's are not "Instructional" ratings although those may be held in addition to an S&TA rating. The primary role of the S&TA is "Advisory & Administrative."

The answer is, "No."

"USPA officials, including S&TAs, may not verify the requirements for renewing their own ratings."

ETA: S&TA Handbook

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[diablopilot 2]

jimjumper

That's not true! While a "D" is recommended I know of at least 2 S&TA's that didn't even jump. The RD can appoint anyone that is a USPA member. A lot of RD's just sign off on whoever the DZO recommends and the DZO uses them for administrative purposes. That has been a problem in the past and will continue to be in the future as long as USPA keeps pushing off Instructional responsibilities on S&TA's. I still find it unbeleivable that USPA is willing to grant more authority to an unrated and unlicensed person than someone they have vetted thru their own instructional rating system.

It's not recommended, its required, though waiverable.....

GovMan 1-4.4

Quote

A. Safety & Training Advisors
1. The regional director appoints S&TAs and
forwards the appointments to headquarters for
processing.
a. The appointments should be made in
consultation with the drop zone owneroperator, while recognizing that
the advisor is a representative of USPA,
not the drop zone.
b. The appointment of a DZ owner,
operator or employee as the S&TA should
occur only if another suitable candidate is
not available.
c. The following qualifications are required:
(1) be a current USPA member
(2) have made a minimum of 50
freefalls within the past 12 months*
(3) hold at least an instructor rating*
(4) hold a D License
(5) be willing to endorse and promote
USPA policies
(6) attend the regional director’s annual
S&TA meeting*
*Items marked with an asterisk may be waived by the regional director. A
letter of exception will be included with the appointment forwarded to
headquarters. The regional director may appoint himself as an S&TA as
long as the minimum requirements are met.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[DocPop 1]

BIGUN

S&TA's are not "Instructional" ratings although those may be held in addition to an S&TA rating. The primary role of the S&TA is "Advisory & Administrative."

The answer is, "No."

"USPA officials, including S&TAs, may not verify the requirements for renewing their own ratings."

ETA: S&TA Handbook

Understood. But not what I asked.

I see nothing for self-certifying for LICENSES vs ratings.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[BIGUN 1,050]

No

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DocPop 1]

BIGUN

No

Do you have that in writing somewhere? I have looked and can't find it.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[NWFlyer 2]

DocPop

***No

Do you have that in writing somewhere? I have looked and can't find it.

So you've been asked to be an S&TA, maybe you already are one by now. Your profile here shows that you have a C license, but perhaps you've gotten a waiver as part of your S&TA appointment process.

D license applications need to be signed by an S&TA, I/E, or a USPA Board member.

So is this really just idle interest in picking apart the intent of the USPA rules? Or do you want to sign your own D license application? If so, why?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Andy9o8 0]

I'm shocked, shocked that you'd suggest someone posting here has an agenda.

[NWFlyer 2]

Andy9o8

I'm shocked, shocked that you'd suggest someone posting here has an agenda.

I suggested no such thing. I was just curious.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[DocPop 1]

NWFlyer

***I'm shocked, shocked that you'd suggest someone posting here has an agenda.

I suggested no such thing. I was just curious.

Me too. Just curious. If it is possible, it seems like a loophole.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[NWFlyer 2]

DocPop

******I'm shocked, shocked that you'd suggest someone posting here has an agenda.

I suggested no such thing. I was just curious.

Me too. Just curious. If it is possible, it seems like a loophole.

Seems like one that wouldn't be exploited that often, if at all, since there is (as JP cited) a D license requirement to be an S&TA. We may assume that some of those are waived, but that it's probably a pretty small number, then perhaps an even smaller number that would think "Oh, I'll sign my own D license" rather than get someone else to do so. (Since there's a much larger pool of people who can sign an A, B, or C license, I'd assume that thought wouldn't even occur to our hypothetical non-D-license-holding S&TA).

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[SethInMI 145]

DocPop

Me too. Just curious. If it is possible, it seems like a loophole.

From the lack of an asterisk by the D requirement in the governance manual that JP posted, I take it the D-licence requirement is non-waiverable, hence there is no loophole.

Seth

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[nigel99 143]

SethInMI

***
Me too. Just curious. If it is possible, it seems like a loophole.

From the lack of an asterisk by the D requirement in the governance manual that JP posted, I take it the D-licence requirement is non-waiverable, hence there is no loophole.

Seth

Agreed

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[diablopilot 2]

SethInMI

***
Me too. Just curious. If it is possible, it seems like a loophole.

From the lack of an asterisk by the D requirement in the governance manual that JP posted, I take it the D-licence requirement is non-waiverable, hence there is no loophole.

Seth

Thanks for catching that.... I had assumed it was waiverable, though it appears not to be.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[DocPop 1]

SethInMI

***
Me too. Just curious. If it is possible, it seems like a loophole.

From the lack of an asterisk by the D requirement in the governance manual that JP posted, I take it the D-licence requirement is non-waiverable, hence there is no loophole.

Seth

I have a C-licence and an S&TA appointment.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[DiverMike 5]

Dude - you just outed yourself. You cannot be an S&TA without a 'D' license, and that requirement cannot be waived.
Someone as USPA has made a mistake and allowed you to be appointed S&TA incorrectly.

I am not an S&TA, did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, but I can read the regulations and you do not qualify.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[SethInMI 145]

DocPop

I have a C-licence and an S&TA appointment.

It would be a good idea to send an email to USPA HQ and have them update the manual to add a "*" to the D license requirement.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[nigel99 143]

SethInMI

***
I have a C-licence and an S&TA appointment.

It would be a good idea to send an email to USPA HQ and have them update the manual to add a "*" to the D license requirement.

Just sign off your D license and back date it to prior to your appointment - problem solved

More seriously it irritates me that the 'rule enforcers' don't even know the rules

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[theonlyski 3]

nigel99

Just sign off your D license and back date it to prior to your appointment - problem solved

That won't work. They check dates.

Trust me.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[nigel99 143]

theonlyski

***Just sign off your D license and back date it to prior to your appointment - problem solved

That won't work. They check dates.

Trust me.

You mean like they check the license requirements

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[BIGUN 1,050]

DocPop

******
Me too. Just curious. If it is possible, it seems like a loophole.

From the lack of an asterisk by the D requirement in the governance manual that JP posted, I take it the D-licence requirement is non-waiverable, hence there is no loophole.

Seth

I have a C-licence and an S&TA appointment.

You need to right the wrong. Contact your RD.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.