Doesn't want to open.

[Gary73 8]

Got a customer with a Sentry 190 that comes out of the bag fine, but then streamers until you pull on the rear risers a bit.  Once it's open, it flies just fine.  Checked some of the line lengths, and while the brakes are good, a lot of the others are near or a little beyond the factory specs.  Any ideas for a quick fix?  Thanks!

[SCS422 24]

short or long?  Hard to be short but possible

Edited September 7 by SCS422

[Gary73 8]

1 hour ago, SCS422 said:

short or long?  Hard to be short but possible

The lines that aren't right on spec are all over.

 

[SCS422 24]

 

well, it's tough to say, could be his packing but maybe a new line set is in order.

Edited September 7 by SCS422

[pchapman 275]

The safe answer is indeed a new line set.
On the other hand, it that worth it for a little-produced, little-known canopy from way back, from a company that doesn't exist any more?  (Correct? Flight Concepts became Parachutes Direct which is also gone now?)

Otherwise if one wants to test pilot a bit, one could start fiddling with brake settings to affect the opening. Do the brakes need to be set deeper to try to catch air more, like pulling on rears? Although if the lines out of spec are "all over", then it isn't a very consistent situation.
(How far is "out of spec" for that company? Is it something that was in the manuals?)

I don't like providing simplistic answers, but I kind of think providing your customer with links to facebook and dropzone gear classifieds pages may be appropriate, to find a new used main parachute at an affordable price....

[wolfriverjoe 1,460]

18 hours ago, Gary73 said:

Got a customer with a Sentry 190 that comes out of the bag fine, but then streamers until you pull on the rear risers a bit...

I always thought a 'streamer' was a round malfunction.

Do you mean that the slider isn't coming down until he yanks the rears a bit?
That's a bit different.

Is the slider the right size?

If so, I might be tempted to mess around with how it gets quartered when packing.
I've seen canopies that were super sensitive to how the slider was stowed.
I have a 170 Sabre2 that really likes to have the sides of the slider pulled well out. 
If that isn't done, hard(ish) openings will happen fairly often.

16 hours ago, Gary73 said:

The lines that aren't right on spec are all over.

I'm reading this as 'all the lines that are out of spec are too long', not 'all over the place'.

[Gary73 8]

27 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I always thought a 'streamer' was a round malfunction.

Do you mean that the slider isn't coming down until he yanks the rears a bit?
That's a bit different.

Is the slider the right size?

If so, I might be tempted to mess around with how it gets quartered when packing.
I've seen canopies that were super sensitive to how the slider was stowed.
I have a 170 Sabre2 that really likes to have the sides of the slider pulled well out. 
If that isn't done, hard(ish) openings will happen fairly often.

I'm reading this as 'all the lines that are out of spec are too long', not 'all over the place'.

Maybe a little old fashioned, but if the slider doesn't come down, I call that a streamer.  Is there a better term? 

The slider is factory original.

Several different packers and jumpers, so if it's that sensitive to exact packing technique, it's probably not a good canopy for a club rig.

WRT line length, some are short and some are long.  The FCI manual allows +/- 1 inch, but some are a little outside that each way.

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,460]

1 minute ago, Gary73 said:

Maybe a little old fashioned, but if the slider doesn't come down, I call that a streamer.  Is there a better term? 

The slider is factory original.

Several different packers and jumpers, so if it's that sensitive to exact packing technique, it's probably not a good canopy for a club rig.

WRT line length, some are short and some are long.  The FCI manual allows +/- 1 inch, but some are a little outside that each way.

 

I started after rounds went out of fashion, and I was always taught that it was called a 'slider hang up'.

Not a huge deal, but I'm a bit pedantic. 

So different people are jumping it.
Different people are packing it.

And it does the same thing with everyone?

I'm going to agree with Peter and suggest that the canopy is old, obsolete, and probably deserves a nice peaceful retirement.

[Gary73 8]

1 hour ago, pchapman said:

The safe answer is indeed a new line set.
On the other hand, it that worth it for a little-produced, little-known canopy from way back, from a company that doesn't exist any more?  (Correct? Flight Concepts became Parachutes Direct which is also gone now?)

Otherwise if one wants to test pilot a bit, one could start fiddling with brake settings to affect the opening. Do the brakes need to be set deeper to try to catch air more, like pulling on rears? Although if the lines out of spec are "all over", then it isn't a very consistent situation.
(How far is "out of spec" for that company? Is it something that was in the manuals?)

I don't like providing simplistic answers, but I kind of think providing your customer with links to facebook and dropzone gear classifieds pages may be appropriate, to find a new used main parachute at an affordable price....

Yeah, definitely an older, unsupported canopy, but with plenty of life left in it if we can solve this problem.  The club has limited funds, so I hate to give up on it.

Yes, FCI is gone.  I think that Parachutes Direct was just their online marketing arm, so they're gone, too.

I might try adding a new cat's eye a couple of inches above the existing one to see if that helps.

 

[pchapman 275]

27 minutes ago, Gary73 said:

I might try adding a new cat's eye a couple of inches above the existing one to see if that helps.

Report back if you find out anything more interesting...

I can understand the dilemma. Brake line adjustment could be a quickie fix. For a bigger canopy, being a bit out of spec on lines isn't necessarily black death dangerous. Plenty of people have flown big canopies that were out of trim a long time before anyone ever noticed or a rigger ever checked it. Still there can be a difference between a particular jumper choosing to jump an old officially-out-of-trim canopy, and having it as a club canopy where the assumption of risk & liability situation may be a bit murkier or uncomfortable. Since the canopy otherwise sounds like it is in good condition, maybe that new line set is a good solution. If you or another rigger can build one efficiently, still a relatively cheap way for the club to have a decent canopy, compared to looking for another used canopy.

[wmw999 2,310]

Ok, I’ll admit we used to cut a hole in the slider for some canopies way back, and then reinforce it with crossed tape. Do you have another similar-sized slider you can experiment with, and just include a tertiary chute so that you’re covered if it turns out to be a bad idea?

Wendy P. 

[Gary73 8]

23 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Ok, I’ll admit we used to cut a hole in the slider for some canopies way back, and then reinforce it with crossed tape. Do you have another similar-sized slider you can experiment with, and just include a tertiary chute so that you’re covered if it turns out to be a bad idea?

Wendy P. 

I did that once for a Heat Wave 170 with the same problem :).  Minimal results.  Re-lining didn't help either.  Eventually gave up and replaced the canopy.  Real shame; loved that canopy until it picked up that habit.