Ukraine still matters

[TriGirl 306]

On 10/18/2024 at 4:26 PM, billvon said:

Trump explains who started the Ukraine war - Zelensky and Biden.

“I think Zelensky is one of the greatest salesmen I’ve ever seen.  And that doesn’t mean I don’t want to help them because I feel very badly for those people. But he should never have let that war start. That war’s a loser. This should’ve been settled before it started. It would’ve been so easy. If we had a president with half a brain, it would’ve been easy to settle."

But who _really_ started the war?  Trump said he “largely blames” Biden for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.  According to Trump, Biden “instigated that war.”

But if Ukraine had just given Russia the territory it wanted, there wouldn't be a war right now.  See?  Easy to have prevented a war. [/s]

[nigel99 416]

26 minutes ago, TriGirl said:

But if Ukraine had just given Russia the territory it wanted, there wouldn't be a war right now.  See?  Easy to have prevented a war. [/s]

Provided they bought DJT stock at the right price of course 

[billvon 2,918]

52 minutes ago, TriGirl said:

But if Ukraine had just given Russia the territory it wanted, there wouldn't be a war right now.  See?  Easy to have prevented a war. [/s]

Too bad Trump wasn't around back in 1939.  We wouldn't have had World War II!  He could have explained to the people of Westerplatte that there's no reason to get all violent towards their friends on the Schleswig-Holstein.

[Phil1111 1,142]

2 hours ago, TriGirl said:

But if Ukraine had just given Russia the territory it wanted, there wouldn't be a war right now.  See?  Easy to have prevented a war. [/s]

If trump is re-elected he can give Putin the territory and make arrangement for Ukraine to pay reparations for causing the war.

[Phil1111 1,142]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Too bad Trump wasn't around back in 1939.  We wouldn't have had World War II!  He could have explained to the people of Westerplatte that there's no reason to get all violent towards their friends on the Schleswig-Holstein.

trump was around in 1939

[JoeWeber 2,690]

3 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

trump was around in 1939

Ain't that the truth.

[riggerrob 630]

Many strategists believe that Mr. Poutine's latest military adventures are ploys to re-capture the Polish Gap (near Warsaw) and the Bessarabian Gap (Carpathian Mountains Southwest of Odesa). The rest of Ukraine is needed for defense-in-depth. I seriously doubt if Mr. Poutine really cares about de-nazifying Ukraine.

[jakee 1,445]

1 minute ago, riggerrob said:

Many strategists 

Who?

1 minute ago, riggerrob said:

I seriously doubt if Mr. Poutine really cares about de-nazifying Ukraine.

Of course he doesn't. The only two people here who did were banned long ago for being completely mental.

[riggerrob 630]

On 10/26/2024 at 2:37 PM, jakee said:

Who?

Of course he doesn't. The only two people here who did were banned long ago for being completely mental.

Peter Zeihan and some generals.

[jakee 1,445]

27 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

Peter Zeihan 

He's wrong.

Putin doesn't for a moment believe any of his rhetoric about NATO being an aggressor that threatens Russia's borders. He's a far more astute political operator than that. He does care about NATO eroding Russia's sphere of influence (or rather, previous vassal states defecting to NATO and the west of their own accord), but that's a very different thing.

28 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

and some generals.

Who?

[johnhking1 95]

With the current Presidential campaign and upcoming election, Ukraine has been put on the news back burner.  Very little information coming out about what is happening over there.  After the election, it will probably be the same with the post election news, analysis, complaining, speculation, etc.

[wolfriverjoe 1,496]

7 hours ago, johnhking1 said:

With the current Presidential campaign and upcoming election, Ukraine has been put on the news back burner.  Very little information coming out about what is happening over there.  After the election, it will probably be the same with the post election news, analysis, complaining, speculation, etc.

Lots of info is coming out.

You just have to look for it.

The Russians are doing what they've always done best during a war.

 

Dying. They're making small, slow gains in Donbas, trying to take a logistics hub.
At huge costs.
They've lost thousands and thousands of troops in the past month or so. They still use the classic Russian tactic of "send men in, when they get killed you can see where the Ukrainians are firing from" 
Russia has reportedly started bringing in soldiers from North Korea. Because they're running out of Russians to send to their deaths.

They're doing very little to take back the territory in Kursk that the Ukrainians seized.

The Ukrainians are getting better at stopping the missile/drone attacks by Russia on their infrastructure.

They're also getting better at sending drones into Russia to take out supply depots, oil refinery/storage and key manufacturing.

[Phil1111 1,142]

50 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Lots of info is coming out.....

Ukraine is getting $50 billion from the interest on seized Russian money. Ukraine is also getting up to 20 Mirage 2000-5 jets from France in the first quarter of 2025 upgraded to the latest standard.

South Korean officials are now meeting with NATO officials discussing S. Korean weapons for Ukraine.

[JoeWeber 2,690]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Ukraine is getting $50 billion from the interest on seized Russian money. Ukraine is also getting up to 20 Mirage 2000-5 jets from France in the first quarter of 2025 upgraded to the latest standard.

South Korean officials are now meeting with NATO officials discussing S. Korean weapons for Ukraine.

Joe is correct. He could have added more. The Mirage Fighters are just that as have been the F-16's. We need to untether our long range missiles from limited use. Also, we need to hope the clever Ukrainians have reversed engineered western cruise missiles and are close to deployment. I think the Ukrainians should reduce to rubble, as the Russians love to do, St.Basil's Cathedral and show the nuclear threat was empty.

[Phil1111 1,142]

7 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Joe is correct. He could have added more. The Mirage Fighters are just that as have been the F-16's. We need to untether our long range missiles from limited use. Also, we need to hope the clever Ukrainians have reversed engineered western cruise missiles and are close to deployment. I think the Ukrainians should reduce to rubble, as the Russians love to do, St.Basil's Cathedral and show the nuclear threat was empty.

Completely agree. President Biden has been too risk adverse. Right now NATO allies have supplied arms without restrictions on where they are used. So Putin could use his red line right now. Putin could attack the NATO allies who have delivered unrestricted use weapons to Ukraine and the US would be dragged to war anyway. Netherlands Says Ukraine Can Use Its F-16s To Strike Russian Territory

Ukrainians are designing and building more and longer range drones. It needs ones that can sink Russian ships in Vladivostok (3700 NM). Turn off power, gas, oil and phone service all over Russia. Ukrainian farmers need to be building drones in their workshops in the winter when they are not farming.

[riggerrob 630]

14 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

.... 
Russia has reportedly started bringing in soldiers from North Korea. Because they're running out of Russians to send to their deaths. ...

The sad thing is that those North Korean soldiers will be purely cannon-fodder. They can never go home again because they might tell family and friends about the high standard of living in Ukraine. Any stories that under-mine faith in the Supreme Leader of North Korea will be quickly crushed.

Compare this with Soviet soldiers who conquered Berlin at the end of World War 2. Because they had seen the luxurious living standards of Berliners - compared with the average Russian peasant. From Stalin's perspective it was better for those soldiers to die in battle. Surviving soldiers got diverted to Siberia for a few years.

[normiss 767]

41 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

The sad thing is that those North Korean soldiers will be purely cannon-fodder. They can never go home again because they might tell family and friends about the high standard of living in Ukraine. Any stories that under-mine faith in the Supreme Leader of North Korea will be quickly crushed.

Compare this with Soviet soldiers who conquered Berlin at the end of World War 2. Because they had seen the luxurious living standards of Berliners - compared with the average Russian peasant. From Stalin's perspective it was better for those soldiers to die in battle. Surviving soldiers got diverted to Siberia for a few years.

Someone should drop leaflets over the battlefield where the NoKo soldiers are, informing them of the freedom they have to walk away to a new life without NoKo slavery.

[Phil1111 1,142]

12 minutes ago, normiss said:

Someone should drop leaflets over the battlefield where the NoKo soldiers are, informing them of the freedom they have to walk away to a new life without NoKo slavery.

So you want their spouses, children, grandchildren, aunts, uncles to be strapped to the muzzle of an anti-aircraft cannon and blown to smithereens? Smeared with a nerve agent?

I thought you were a kind person! One filled with empathy!

[JerryBaumchen 1,340]

3 hours ago, riggerrob said:

The sad thing is that those North Korean soldiers will be purely cannon-fodder. They can never go home again because they might tell family and friends about the high standard of living in Ukraine. Any stories that under-mine faith in the Supreme Leader of North Korea will be quickly crushed.

Compare this with Soviet soldiers who conquered Berlin at the end of World War 2. Because they had seen the luxurious living standards of Berliners - compared with the average Russian peasant. From Stalin's perspective it was better for those soldiers to die in battle. Surviving soldiers got diverted to Siberia for a few years.

Hi Rob,

Re:  They can never go home again because they might tell family and friends about the high standard of living in Ukraine.

Just about anywhere in the world, other than NoKo, would be a high standard of living for them.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  There were many Soviets living is western Russia, Ukraine, etc, that joined the German army to fight against Stalin.  Sadly, they were summarily executed when he re-conquered them.

 

 

[Phil1111 1,142]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

...PS)  There were many Soviets living is western Russia, Ukraine, etc, that joined the German army to fight against Stalin.  Sadly, they were summarily executed when he re-conquered them.

A sad irony. Today there are many Americans that want to vote into power, in another week, a Stalin incarnate!

[JoeWeber 2,690]

Hmm... whod'a seen this coming? Now let's see them waste St. Basil's.

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/ukraine_prepares_to_deploy_hrim_2_ballistic_missile_expanding_strike_capability_against_russian_targets_media-12397.html

[ryoder 1,590]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Hmm... whod'a seen this coming? Now let's see them waste St. Basil's.

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/ukraine_prepares_to_deploy_hrim_2_ballistic_missile_expanding_strike_capability_against_russian_targets_media-12397.html

I still want to see Ukraine lob a missile into this target:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/44°25'08.4"N+38°12'18.0"E/@44.4190321,38.2062179,3079m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d44.419!4d38.205?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Yes, I know it is not a military target, but it would still be so satisfying.

[JoeWeber 2,690]

2 minutes ago, ryoder said:

I still want to see Ukraine lob a missile into this target:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/44°25'08.4"N+38°12'18.0"E/@44.4190321,38.2062179,3079m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d44.419!4d38.205?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Yes, I know it is not a military target, but it would still be so satisfying.

@ZelenskyyUa  He's on X, let him know your desires.

[Phil1111 1,142]

1 hour ago, ryoder said:

I still want to see Ukraine lob a missile into this target:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/44°25'08.4"N+38°12'18.0"E/@44.4190321,38.2062179,3079m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d44.419!4d38.205?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Yes, I know it is not a military target, but it would still be so satisfying.

Look at the fancy private port with fancy breakwater and no yacht to be found. He's not getting any younger either.

[normiss 767]

2 hours ago, ryoder said:

I still want to see Ukraine lob a missile into this target:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/44°25'08.4"N+38°12'18.0"E/@44.4190321,38.2062179,3079m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d44.419!4d38.205?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Yes, I know it is not a military target, but it would still be so satisfying.

Middle of Red Square should make quite a statement.